Night Court: Deep Thoughts About Likable Sleazeballs, Comedy with an Optimistic Heart, and Kooky 1980s Criminals in New York City Artwork

Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Comedy Podcast

80s and 90s movies and early 2000s tv may be called stupid shit by some, but you know it matters. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, sister podcasters who love well-crafted fiction and one another. In this comedy podcast, we look at the classic movies of our Gen X childhood and adolescence, analyzing film tropes to uncover the cultural commentary on romance, money, religion, mental health, and more. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, comedy to drama to horror, we use feminism, our super smart brains, and each other to uncover the lessons lurking behind the nostalgia of pop culture. Come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.

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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Comedy Podcast

Night Court: Deep Thoughts About Likable Sleazeballs, Comedy with an Optimistic Heart, and Kooky 1980s Criminals in New York City

May 05, 2026 • Sister podcasters raised by 80s and 90s movies: Tracie Guy-Decker, lover of animation, Muppets, comedy, and feminism & Emily Guy Birken, storytelling nerd, mental health advocate, and pop culture aficionado • Episode 135

0:00 | 53:07

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The Big Apple needs a worm like Fielding!

This week on Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, Emily revisits a favorite television comedy from her Gen X childhood: Night Court. Not only did the Guy sisters watch this workplace comedy in syndication in the afternoons starting in elementary school (despite the fact that much of the humor was very much not meant for children), but it was also part of the Must See TV lineup on Thursday nights that Tracie and Emily watched with their parents.

Showrunner Reinhold Weege (and yes, that's really his name) created a true laugh-a-minute comedy that also offered well-meaning storytelling that was surprisingly progressive about trans acceptance, mental health, and racial equality. But the treatment of women in the show, especially how John Larroquette's Dan Fielding constantly hit on every woman indiscriminately and Markie Post's Christine Sullivan in particular, feels much slimier now than the writers intended. While Fielding was always the butt of the joke and made to pay for his sleazy ways, Night Court is a pop culture reflection of the belief that unwanted male attention was the price of being a woman. The fact that Larroquette still managed to make Dan likable is a testament to his acting skills and the strength of the ensemble cast, headed by Harry Anderson.

Throw on your headphones and take a listen...and we'll consider the case of The People vs. The Podcast Listener dismissed!

Why Pop Culture Still Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Uh part of the reason why it endured as long as it did was because it was like comforting because you had all these kooky characters who you loved, like they were all very lovable, even the sleaze bag. And it was comforting because it always ends well. Like, I mean, that's what sitcoms do. And it's very funny. It's a laugh a minute.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know what's worth talking and thinking about. And so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I'm Emily Guy Birken, and this is Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit. Because pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I'll be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1980s era sitcom Night Court with my sister, Tracy Guy Decker, and with you. Let's dive in. All right, Trace, I know you know this show. We used to watch it together after school. Yeah. What's in your head about Night Court?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I love this show so much. So I don't remember a single storyline, but I remember the characters pretty

Recalling Night Court After School

SPEAKER_00 1:14

well. So Harry, the judge, who's sort of sort of the protagonist, who's like a super young and like goofy juggler, and like got the gig because they needed a new judge. And so they were like going down the line of making phone calls, and he was the only one that answered the phone. And the two primary lawyers in the court, the public defender and the prosecutor, and I honestly don't remember which was which, but one was Dan Fielding, played by John Larriquette, who was like a lovable rogue that when I think back on it with today's eyes, I'm like, ooh, maybe not so lovable. And then the female lawyer, whose name you had to remind me of, which is funny because I remember everybody else's names, but her name was Christine. I remember that she was blonde, and there was some sexual tension between her and Harry, the judge. And the two bailiffs who I also loved, Roz, who was like a short black woman who was snarky, and I thought she was hilarious. And Bull, the tall white dude with a shaved head who wasn't super bright, but the two of them had like an interesting like relationship where they cared about each other, but Raz was always like making fun of Bull and stuff. And I remember there's at least one episode with a puppet with a bull, a bull puppet that was very funny. And I don't know if you know this, but my boyfriend before I got married, Art, he shaved his head at one point while we were together and he picked me up, and I didn't know his head had been shaved. And like he picked me up, and I got in the car and I was like, oh my God, you look like Bull. And I was like simultaneously delighted and a little icked out that he looked like Bull from that court. So I don't remember a single storyline, but those characters are still very real and vibrant in my head. And like specific moments, like how Harry got the job and like Bull with his puppet. So like I have specific moments, but I don't have any storylines. So anyway, that's the furniture in my mind. It's actually people. But tell me, um, why are we talking about Night Court today?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

So I don't remember what reminded me of it recently, but this was a show that I really, really liked. And it was in syndication when we were in like elementary, middle, high school. It actually ran from 1984 to 1992. So it was still going. Like it was still airing new episodes when I remember watching it after school. I'd get home from school and I'd make myself a snack and I'd watch like two night court reruns back to back. And then apparently on Thursdays, I'd also watch a new episode because it was my C TV on Thursday. And I remember just really, really liking it. There are certain jokes that have become part of my lexicon. Oh, oh, uh-huh. So if someone asks me why is the sky blue, I say because if we're green, we wouldn't know when to stop mowing. Because that's a nightcourt joke. That's a nightcourt joke.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I did not know that was a nightcourt joke.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

There was a cold open where they're talking about like there's hurricane-level winds of like 80 miles an hour, and then Dan comes in to Harry's chambers and his underwear is around his neck, and he's like pulling at it, going, guaranteed not to ride up. So like things like that are in my head. There's another one where there's some sort of power outage or something like that, and there was a court case involving like a whole passel of women who are very, very pregnant, and all of them go into labor at once. And so, like, many, they're all like giving birth, and like everyone's trying to help them. And in the cafeteria, bull is helping one woman give birth and the baby is breech. The bull's helping, and he's like, Would you look at the grin on that baby's face?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Because it's he's looking at Toshi.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

He's looking at Tatoshi. So there are things that are just in my head about this show and always have been. But I also, as I have become more aware of my internalized homophobia and internalized transphobia, I recognize that a lot of it was built on watching this show. This specific show, really. Just because there are some things I remember some jokes in this show,

Comfort TV And Catchphrases

SPEAKER_01 6:05

although this show was also in a lot of ways very progressive. And like it kind of gave with one hand and took away with the other, and it was very well intentioned. It was clearly very well intentioned. And the people involved, I think, really were trying their best. But this was the toxic waters we swam in in the 80s. Yeah. Because you've remarked before that I have a really good memory for these kinds of stories. Some of this is just, I just remember some of the things, and they stuck with me. And then once I knew better, I looked back on them and was like, ew. But what also stuck with me were the things that were well intentioned and worked out nicely, and they did a lovely job of. I had a little crush on Harry Anderson. Me too. I liked him and Marky Post, who played Christine. And then I like workplace comedies. I find them very satisfying. And then the idea, the setup of this show is very intelligent in that because it's set up as night court, so it's already like New York in the 80s was already the idea, was this place was kind of a mess. Yeah. And then you're talking about who's coming before the judge at night. It's gonna be the kooks. So you've got this rotating cast of extras coming through. It's the weird cases. So like that is just really great fertile soil for comedy to bring in these rotating casts of characters that you can have the regulars play off of, and then you have the regular characters, you've got kind of archetypes with each of them that you can then have them like play off the weirdos that are coming through. It just seems like a dream of a writing job. And so there I think there's a reason why I enjoyed it. We enjoyed it as much as we did. And there are a lot of people who say it was one of the best sitcoms of the 80s. And I'll get into that in a bit. So you did a pretty good job of remembering the characters. There's a little bit more I wanna I wanna kind of get into.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Do you want to give me some postcards first? I mean, you have a little bit already, but do you have any additional postcards from the destination that you want to share before we do that?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, so there's some things that I'm gonna talk about. I'm gonna talk about like the humor. So there's a lot of different types of humor in it. There's slapstick and physical comedy. Harry Anderson was hired because he was a magician and did physical comedy. Reinhold Wiege, who was the showrunner, specifically saw him on Saturday Night Live and wanted him for that.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

I remember, I do remember one episode where we learned

How The Show Builds Laughs

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Dan's actual like real name, his legal name is Reinhold.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yes. Yes. And apparently Weige would use the names of his friends for the people coming into court. That's so like consistently he would name characters after his friends. That's really funny.

unknown 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

So Harry was like a juggler and a magician. Yeah. The actor was. And so the character was as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yes. And I might be wrong about this, but I think the fact that Harry T. Stone loved Mel Tour May, I think that was also Harry Anderson. That's one aspect of it. There's uh there's also like a kind of repetitive comedy where the same joke is repeated multiple times that I find very satisfying, especially the way like they change it slightly and repeat it. And I'll I'll give an example. The show has a lot of heart in that every episode in is in some way a very special episode, if you remember those from the 80s. So every single episode has some sort of moral. And that's I think part of the reason why our parents were okay with us watching it. And part of why I feel like I was texting you yesterday as I was watching saying this show does not age well. But then I was like going, well, maybe it does because the ickiness keeps being undercut. I'll get to that. And specifically Dan Fielding, that character, John Larquette won the Emmy four times in a row, 85 through 89. And by 1989, after the fourth time he won, he withdrew his name from contention. Now, that was not just because he was like, I can't keep winning, please. It was also because he's like, I don't want to be typecast. If I keep winning for Dan Fielding, I'm only ever going to be a sleazy guy. Part of it is like he plays this character in such a way that you don't hate him. Even though he's hateful, the show walks this line, even though it's icky. And I'll I'll get into it. I want to talk about the difference between TV writing then versus now. As I mentioned, there's giving with one hand and taking away with the other in terms of things like homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, and fat shaming. Fat shaming is the one where they kind of don't ever give with one hand. It's really just only taking away.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, I mean, it's still today. I feel like that it's like the one identity that is still okay to just shit on.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah. Is fat folks. I might get a little bit into the sexual tension between Harry and Christine. I also like the show's funny. It's very, very funny. There are a couple of characters you missed, and I kind of want to go into how things shook out because we did not quite get that lineup of characters until the third season. Oh. So the only three characters who were there all nine seasons were Harry T. Stone, played by Harry Anderson, Dan Fielding, played by John La Roquette, and Bull Shannon, played by Richard Mull. In the first season, the court manager was a woman played by Karen Austin and was the original love interest for Harry. She was eventually replaced by

The Cast We Remember And Forget

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Mac, was the character's name played by Charles Robinson. You probably remember Mac. He was the black guy who was like, oh, real easygoing.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah. Yeah. I loved Mac. Funny guy. Dan Fielding was part of the district attorney, so he was the prosecutor. There were multiple defense attorneys, I don't remember the specific names, before Marky Post as Christine Sullivan took over in the third season and became the love interest. It took a while for them to find the right match. Originally, there was the bailiff along with Bull was this very tiny older woman named Selma. I can't remember her character's last name because she was played by Selma Diamond, who she had like a voice. Smoker's voice. Yeah, she had a smoker's voice and she died of lung cancer.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

I remember her.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

She was also very snarky. Yes, she was hilarious. She was delightful. Richard Mull is, I think, six foot eight, and she was like five foot one. Right. So they were just hilarious and great together. When she passed away, they hired another older woman, similar kind of smoker's voice, Florence Hallup, who also died of lung cancer after one season. And that's when they replaced her with Marsha Warfield, who played Roz, where they're who was 32 and didn't smoke. They're like, and not quite so short. They're like, okay, we're not doing this again. So those were the major players. There were a few people who you saw recurring characters. One is Daniel Frischman, who was a little person who was Dan's boss, the district attorney Vincent Daniels was his name. I'm mentioning him because he was in one of the episodes I watched. And then Brent Spinner, who went on to play Data, yes, was a frequent defendant. Uh, and then Annie O'Donnell was his played his wife, Bob and June Wheeler. Complete like when you see sort of remember that. Yeah. Uh Yaakov Smirnov uh was a Russian immigrant named Yaakov Koralenko. Mel Tormay was a was frequently on the show. As himself. Yeah. Terry Kaiser, friend of the show, he was Bernie of Weekend at Bernie's. Oh. And then John Aston, who had been Gomez in the TV show of the uh Adams Family, was Harry's stepfather buddy. Dan had a like errand boy who was kind of a vagrant man living on the street named Phil, played by William Ute. Now I want to talk about how TV writing worked then versus now and how I watched episodes. I just picked a season and watched a few episodes and then picked another season and watched a few episodes because unlike TV now, it doesn't matter. Right. Every episode stood alone. Every episode stood alone. Because sitcoms didn't need didn't really have arcs in the same way they do now. Uh-huh.

Standalone Sitcoms Then Versus Now

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yeah. Every once in a while you'd have a cliffhanger. Every once in a while you'd have a three-episode arc. But not really. Yeah. And in some ways, I feel like that was freeing for writers' rooms back then.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Because you only had to worry about the 24 minutes in front of you. You didn't have to think about like you didn't have to worry about continuity. Right. You didn't have to plot out the whole thing. Yeah. Because of that, there are some things that I'm not sure of. I I watched about six episodes in preparation for this. There were nine seasons, and about the first season was short because it was a midseason pickup. But I think there were about 24 episodes per season. So I watched about six. Yeah. I remember quite a few from when I was a regular watcher as a kid, but now that means that the showrunners back then had to know their characters, and that's about it. They didn't really have to know lore. And that's why, for instance, people who are like obsessive about friends know that like Ross was born in both May and December. Because in one in season three, he says he says his birthday was in May, and in season seven, he says it was in December or something like that. Because Writer's Room didn't know, didn't care, because who's watching it all at once? Yeah. Uh-huh. And like the goal was to get people to laugh while they're watching, not to tell a cohesive story.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

It's not about that. It's also the case that because it was broadcast, and if you missed it, you missed it. You needed to be able to come back the following week and still be able to follow. Right. Unlike, like that's why like I can remember Twin Peaks when that was on when I was in high school, when it was being broadcast, and it was like a really big deal. You couldn't miss it because you wouldn't know what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

The next week. And so, like with sitcoms, where people, you know, they're not gonna like, I mean, we did, but they're less likely to rearrange their life for it, but you want them to still come back the following week or two weeks later or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

And one of the things that as I was reading like people talking about this, one of the things people were saying why this show was so enjoyable was that it packed so many laughs in. And part of the reason why it endured as long as it did was because it was like comforting because you had all these kooky characters who you loved, like they were all very lovable, even the sleaze bag, and it was comforting because it always ends well. Like, I mean, that's what sitcoms do. And it's very funny. It's a laugh a minute. I mean, like, there's consistently now. This is one of those, like it's I can never remember which is which, the multi-camera with a laugh track. So like you're cued when to laugh.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

But even with that, I laughed out loud multiple times as I was watching this week at stuff that I I was just like, oh wow, I wasn't expecting that. I feel like that's a big difference in how TV is made now. Like, we don't have sitcoms like that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

We're consuming them so differently, too. Yes. And some of it is like I mentioned this in the last episode. Some of it is we don't sit down and watch TV anymore. We are doing something else while the TV is on. And that's part of it. And I don't know that for sure that this is true, but just watching my kids consume media, so much of the humor feels mean-spirited. My youngest really likes Twitch streamers, so like he's watching people play video games. They're entertaining, but there's so much yelling and just feels mean-spirited in a way that I don't really understand. Although, to be fair, there's mean-spirited jokes in this as well. There's, you know, consistently making fun of Bull for not being very smart.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Mom and our stepfather used to say they could only watch SpongeBob when I was around because that's when they knew how to laugh. Like when to laugh, like what was funny. Some of the media that my daughter consumes, I feel that way about. Like I she laughs and I'm like, what was funny about that? Like, I don't get it. You say six, seven, and do your hands like this, and like all of her generation, like crack up. There is nothing funny about that.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah. Some of it I think maybe there is some more mean spirited. There's definitely a lot more yelling. But some of it, like, I just don't get. It's a cultural reference that I'm not privy to.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Let me talk about some of the comedy. So the repetitive comedy. This is the thing that like I just I cracked up every single time. So one of the episodes I watched is it was called Authorore. I think it was what the title was. It was a season four episode. Bull has entered a contest through the one of the local like New York colleges to create a children's book.

Running Gags Slapstick And Magic

SPEAKER_01 20:52

And I don't remember what he called it. It was something like, you know, Chucky meets out death or something like that. And he's drawing a picture for the cover. And so professor who is heading the people who are judging it, they're having like eight to 10-year-old kids judge the submissions. So the professor who's in charge of this contest comes to the courtroom and finds Bull and he says, Are you Bull Shannon? He says, Yes, I am. And he says, Did you write this? And he says, Yes, I did. And he's like, This is the most depraved piece of literature I have ever seen. I cannot imagine who, what kind of mind would write this filth. And so Bull goes, Did I win? And then Harry calls him over. He's like, What's going on? The professor comes over and says, like, this piece was entered into a contest, and eight and 10 year olds were subjected to this horrible, nightmare inducing piece of literature. And Harry goes, Did he win? And it changes a little bit every time. And like, multiple people, like Then later on, Dan comes in and goes, like, did he win? And it was just like, I don't know why. Like the fact that it kept going, like the first did I win was hilarious. But the fact that it was repeated, like, I died. Like, cause I don't know why that was so funny, but that kind of repetitive comedy killed me. I loved it. That was really just delightful. There's a lot of slapstick and physical comedy because of Harry Anderson. One of the episodes I saw was set at Halloween. So Harry Teastone loves Halloween because I suspect Harry Anderson does, because also a lot of prop comedy, a lot of like magic type stuff. And so we see him, he's really bummed at that point because of there's a a kid who's an orphan played by Bumper Robinson, who was niece, yeah, in enemy mine. And the kid has gone missing. Harry is really bummed about it. And so he's like hammering a nail into his hand. Mm-hmm. Mac is like is who is also into Halloween, is just like, sir, you really need to stop torturing yourself or something like that. When he's got like a nail in the middle of his hand. And Christine doesn't like Halloween stuff. And so she's trying to cheer him up with the stuff that she hates. Like it's a box full of internal organs. And she's like, oh, come on, this is a heart. You know, like, don't let your heart break. And I don't even remember. So, like that aspect of it and like pure slapstick of it. But that same episode, as I mentioned, Dan's boss is a little person, and there's no mention of it. He is wearing a costume in that's like he's dressed as like a squirrel or something. The little person is. The little person. And Harry thinks it's Leon, the character played by Bob and Robinson. And he's like, Oh, God, come here, you little scamp, and picks him up and hugs him and then puts him down. Daniels is the name of the boss. He takes the mask off and he's like, I think this might hurt our professional relationship. Other than the mistaken for a child, it's not remarked on that he's a little person. Dan very badly wants to go. So Daniels is having a Halloween party. And he is, because he's Dan's boss, he is having like, he apparently is gonna have the mayor at the party. Like, there's the rumors going around that he's gonna have a lot of big mucky mucks. And Dan, in addition to being a sex fiend, is also like a suck up. And so he really, really wants to go to this party. And he's like begging his boss to let him come to this party. The Daniels is like, I hate you. I want nothing to do with you. Like, I would be happy if you were dead in a ditch or something like that. And then he ends with, nice job on those reports, by the way. Dan tells Christine, like, well, I'm just gonna sneak in. It's a Halloween party. I'll be in costume. He won't know. And the show ends with Dan in costume sneaking into the party, and the party is entirely little people. So then he's the only one in costume, also. So that's what I mean. Like that's kind of a slapstick kind of setup. I want to transition into talking about Dan is almost always the butt of the joke. That I thought, like when I saw uh, because I had totally forgotten about that character, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I remember him now that you've said it, I can see him in my mind, but I had totally forgotten him.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah. So when I saw him, I was just like, oh no, where's this going? And I was really pleasantly surprised. Like Dan is

Dan Fielding And The Show’s Blind Spots

SPEAKER_01 25:59

a little gross because he's Dan. Like when he, you know, says, I hope, you know, I hate you, blah, blah, blah. And like, nice job on the reports, by the way. Dan calls after him, I hate your little suit, which I don't know. Like, I don't know how I feel about that line. But no one else, and he's he's supposed to be reprehensible. No one else makes any kind of remark. And Harry is like, Oh, I thought you were someone else when he hugs him. Daniel says, like, yeah, something along the lines of occupational hazard or something like that. He like he over and done with. So, like that went very well. One of the storylines that I remember vividly was I did not see it, didn't know how to find it. But Dan has a friend from college who is coming to see him. He hasn't seen him since college. And is trans.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yes. Oh my God, I remember that. Like his best friend from college is now a woman. Yes. And he's always a woman and now identifies as a woman.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah, and is getting married. And so when she comes to to see Dan, his first thought is that this is the fiance. It was so affirming because Dan is like, can't handle it. And Harry is like, this is the person you've always loved. This is the friend you've always known and loved.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

And like Dan eventually accepts. Comes around. Yeah. Dan has this core of decency. And even in that episode, I remember the way that he greets his old friend when he thinks she is the friend's fiance is so different from how he treats any woman he uh sees otherwise. Because he is constantly hitting on women, always. Um, and yet he sees his old friend. And in my memory, and I don't know if this is true, but in my memory, the woman is named Christine. I feel like it's she's named after, and I'm I can't remember her last name, but Christine, something with a J, who was the first trans woman who had gender reassignment surgery. I might be misremembering. In any case, he gives her a hug and is like, oh, you must be so-and-so, you know, the friend's like fiance. I'm so delighted to meet you. And you're the woman who stole his heart, and like gives her a level of respect that he doesn't give women he sees as objects.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

That leads into one of the episodes I watched. The episode starts with everyone bringing Christine into the courtroom, like Bull and several of them, and Mac, like, oh, Christine's had a like a terrible scare. She had nearly choked to death on her lunch. This is Marky Post, Christine Post. Christine, yes. Thank you. Marky Post, Christine. Dan had saved her life because he had in his pocket a guide to the Heimlich maneuver. And one of the things on is remove restrictive clothing. And she's wearing a trench coat, and underneath he's removed her shirt and bra, and he has it. And Christine's like, Thank you, you saved my life. And Harry says to her, He groped you. And Christine is very grateful and says, Like, how can I ever repay you? And he says, Sleep with me. Gross. It is. And so the entire episode is her saying, Absolutely not, I'm not gonna do that. And he's trying different things to convince her, like, I well, I saved your life. You owe me. It's disgusting. And she feels guilty. Ugh. And so she finally says, All right, fine. And so he gets a hotel room. And there is a like a funny moment where he is in the hotel room. There is a like the like the manager of the hotel comes up with champagne that he's ordered. Dan says, like, this is going to be a night of paradise. And Christine walks in and goes, like, all right, let's get this over with. It's gross, but the dichotomy between like from the point of view of the hotel manager is funny. The rest of the courtroom show up one by one to try to, like uh um Harry describes them as we're the sexual SWAT team to try to interrupt things. There also happens to be a man on the balcony trying to commit suicide, excuse me, trying to die by suicide because he's a 38-year-old virgin. Which Harry says, no one would know if you didn't tell people. And then Bull comes in and says, What's the virgin on the balcony doing? Um, just by looking at him. Christine yells at everyone saying, like, you think that I can't make my own decisions, and if I want to sleep with a sleazy man, that's my choice. So get out of here. I have made this decision. It is my choice. Get out of here. So they leave. It's Harry, Mac, Roz, and Bull. She has put on like a moo moo and like a hairnet and like a mask on her, like a poor cleansing mask. He gets her to take that stuff off, and she's just wearing jeans and a t-shirt underneath, and he's like kissing her neck, and then he's like, Oh, I can't do it. And she's like, I knew it, I knew you couldn't. He's like, Yeah, I respect you. That's why you can't. And they have this conversation, and she's like, I knew you're a decent person underneath the all of that. And they have this conversation, he's like, but I will hit on you every day for the rest of your life. And they have it's this weird tension where she's like, I know that you're a decent person, I know that you respect me, and like I know, and like that's that's why I will continue to be civil to you, or something like that. And he's like, Well, what about you know, the Yahoos we work with? And she's like, What happens between the two of us is our business. And then she goes to open the door and they're all standing there with their ears. Listening. So that was one episode. There was another episode I saw where there was a woman played by Fran Dresher, who is in court because there was a man caught peeping at her, and she's like very buttoned up, and she is the man is he's like the gas meter guy, and he claims that she was putting on a show for him while she was getting out of the shower. She is like, with her Fran Dresher voice, like the high nasally voice, was like, you know, there's no propriety these days. And this also grossed me out. Harry says, like, well, there's no proof one way or the other, case dismissed. Ugh. And so Fran Dresher, I don't remember the character's name, Fran Dresher goes to Dan's, like, there's no justice in this world anymore. And I don't remember what he says. A few minutes pass, she comes back and she has put on a much lower, sultry voice, and she's like coming on to him and was like, Can we go someplace more comfortable or something like that? And they end up in a closet and she smacks him. This happens twice. At the end, we find out she has split personality disorder, which, you know, was a very 80s punchline. And the last frame of the episode, Harry says, like, he fell for it twice. He's not gonna fall for it a third time about her. He is hog tied with his tie in his mouth on his desk in the courtroom. Roz has a Polaroid and says, Who wants a copy? and takes a photo of him, and that's what it ends on. So that's what I mean, where he is the butt of the joke. It's really, I don't know where to land with his character. Because John Larquette is a charming actor. Like he is able to thread the needle of saying these sleazy lines and not making me absolutely hate him, even though they are despicable. Right. 40 years on, they're like way more despicable than they were when they were written. Right. But I still was able to like find him kind of likable. I don't know how he was able to do that. Now, some of that is the is the fact that Reinhold Wiege made it clear that he is not someone to aspire to be, and made it clear that he is gross, he is icky, and the only thing that makes him forgivable is that he does have a court of decency. But there is still that sense of like he respects Christine Marky Post, but is that because he respects her because she's a lawyer and smart? Or is it because he respects women? It's not because he respects women, right? He respects certain women.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah. And how much of the work of you as the viewer liking him is actually done by the Christine character, right? Like, I don't buy it that he would say, No, I can't do this, I respect you. I don't buy it. I mean, like we all chose the bear even before we knew about the so-called rape academy that the news just broke recently, where people men were like teaching each other to do this to their wives. Like, I just that's the fantasy is that a man that would behave like that publicly would have that moment of stopping himself.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Our very first episode was Twilight, right? And, you know, Edward is the fantasy, you know, like I love you too much to kill you, even though I could. And now I do think I think that Reinhold Wiege is, and I don't know if he's still alive or not. I haven't I didn't check that, but I think that he is an optimist. I think that he believes in the goodness of the human heart. Because, as I said, every episode is kind of a very special episode. Every episode has heart because every episode has like this moral to it that, like, don't judge a book by its cover. Every episode is about how Dan has a core of decency. There really are like there's a way to fix

Optimism Morals And What We Absorb

SPEAKER_01 37:05

a marriage that seems broken. Like your friend is still your friend, even if they are not the gender that you thought they were.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Even like the relationship between Roz and Bull, who like don't look like they go together, but there's a core of like real mutual affection between those two.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Well, and then the just the fact that Harry is the judge, I did watch the pilot episode just to kind of get reacquainted. How did they frame it?

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

And like initially, all of the like professionals in the courtroom who are waiting for him are horrified by his way of dealing with things because he's young and unorthodox and doing things completely unlike any other judge. And it's like, but you know what? He does have a way of handling things that could be better than the old way. And, you know, like he is looking to try to do the best thing for the people in his court and not just get through the docket. So, like, there is this sunny center to this show. There's a reason why Larquette kept winning Emmys. He is like, he's a really good actor, and he manages to carry that sense of like I'm a better person than I pretend to be. It just doesn't represent reality. Yeah. On the one hand, I don't need my sitcoms to represent reality. Right. On the other, as an eight-year-old watching TV, do I want to be taking in the idea that men are going to police themselves?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Right. Right. Even it wasn't a show made for children. So we happen to watch it when we were eight and eleven, but like it wasn't made for kids. No. But even still, even as a, you know, even the 23-year-olds and the 33-year-olds watching it, like, yeah, I as a society, we want to believe not all men. And so we have these examples. But the thing is, like, most, I mean, not until it's no men, then we have to actually treat it as all men. That's actually the it's not most, I'm not even saying most, but until it's no men, like those of us who will be the victims of that behavior need to behave as though it's all men. Yeah. And that's the thing that the not all men folks don't understand. Right? It's not that, like, oh, I have my feelings hurt because you judge me. Like, I didn't judge you. I don't know you. But like, people who look like you hurt people who look like me.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

I actually I want to push back a little bit on the it wasn't for kids. It wasn't written for kids. But it wasn't not written for kids. Like it wasn't specifically for us, but it was a fan, it was a show that I think Reinhold Wiege knew families would be watching. There were kids in the show, and like there it was every episode was a very special episode.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

That so that's fair. And also, like you write to an audience, and obviously there are secondary audiences, but you're writing to an audience, and he was not writing to children.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

No.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

And so, like, if I were Reinhold Wiege, to a certain extent, I would be like, okay, you guys watched it when you came home from school, but like that's kind of on your parents, that's not on me.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

The only reason why I'm pushing back on this is because I feel like there is a kind of kiddie wholesomeness to this that Reinhold Weige did intentionally.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

On purpose. Yeah. All the more so than your point about like if the picture that we have of like men behaving in sleazy, frankly predatory manner is that actually there's a core of goodness underneath of that. Yes. Yes. That's dangerous. Yes. That's actually dangerous. Yes. Yes. I mean, the show recognized that he was an exception. That was kind of what was like, that's why we don't hate him, is because he was an exception. But like your brain doesn't pick up the exception. It just picks up what's in front of what's in front of us, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yeah. That's what's really tough to watch. And like that's part of like he's a trope. Like the so many comedies have kind of Barney and Barney and How I Met Your Mother. Yeah. I was pleased to see that that he was the way that Weige handled it was by making him the butt of the joke. And that helped me contextualize the show and why I found it so funny as a kid. So, like, okay, that makes sense. And some of it was like, I think Weige was skewering the like yuppies of the 80s. Dan started off in the first two seasons. He was more like of a conservative snob who was like really into money and like greed is good type stuff. And he like over time, they wrote him to be like he was kind of like a little bit into women sleazy, but like the he transformed more into the sleazy character who was greedy also. But like he always wore the three-piece suits. I don't know if you remember that. Some of this I think was skewering that aspect of 80s culture, especially in putting it next to Harry Anderson, or excuse me, Harry Stone, who wore jeans under his robes. So there's that aspect of it as well. Because I think Weige was trying also to make it clear that this was not something to aspire to.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

That culture difference, that culture contrast, even like the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC compartion that came later, but Harry was a Mac.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Mm-hmm. Yes. Dan Fielding was a PC. Yes. Yes. That's part of like with Dan Fielding, like that's part of what I'm talking about, like with giving with one hand and then taking with the other.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

The moment with that the friend, where like that really was kind of a very progressive episode in the like late 80s to have an entire episode about a trans woman and have a very conservative person accept her as his best friend. There was quite a bit of like casual homophobia that was also kind of not. So in the episode that I saw with the man who wanted to jump off the balcony because he was a 38-year-old virgin, the They kept joking that, like, oh, if I save your life, you have to sleep with me. So there was a point where Harry almost tripped over something and Roz like pulled him back and said, like, oh, I just saved your life. Now you have to sleep with me. So like that was another like repetitive joke. And Dan with Cyril is the name of the man who's threatening to jump. And Dan is like yelling at him, like, oh, if you're gonna do it, just do it. And the man like goes to fall backwards and Dan grabs his shirt and pulls him in. Cyril goes, You just saved my life. And so Harry goes, Well, now you have to sleep with him. And the man like is thinking about it. He's like, Well, maybe. And and Dan's like, no, no, that's not how this works. And it's this tension because it's kind of a little bit homophobic, but kind of a little bit progressive for the 80s.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Right. Like maybe that's why Cyril was a virgin because he's not actually straight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

There's an episode I didn't see, but I remember another one that, like, this is what I think back on when I think about the casual homophobia I remember from childhood. There was an episode where, because Dan was part of like not Merchant Marines, but like the what's the military you do on the weekends? National Guard? Yeah, National Guard, thank you. He's part of the National Guard, but he never thought he'd be deployed. They come to get him, and he's like, I gotta get out of this. So he hires Phil, the like homeless guy, lackey. Who runs errands for him, runs errands for him to pretend to be his lover because at the time. Don't ask, don't tell. It was before Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Oh. It was just straight, like if you not straight. The opposite of that. There was no homosexuality allowed whatsoever. And it backfires because he was going to be sent to this jungle with a like super gorgeous woman and his uniform was like a speedo that was jungle camouflage. And so again, Dan is the butt of the joke. He is the one who's being made fun of because he is hoist by his own petard by hiring Phil to pretend to be his gay lover and like he's missing out on something that he would actually really want to do. And I just I can't tease it out because like there's not really anything said about the army being homophobic in that. There's not really anything said about how like fucked up it is that the army would then be like, no.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Also, like whatever this deployment was, I don't care what the uniform, like it wasn't a sex trip. That's not what National Guard or Army Reservists are doing. Yeah. Even if it is in a like desirable, I'm putting that in quotations, location. Like, yeah. So there's like I mean, and yeah, whatever, it was a joke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

But it's yeah, it's kind of silly. It's all a joke. It's all at Dan's expense. It does not examine the homophobia. Anything really. Yeah. It does skewer Dan's willingness to use homophobia to his advantage, but it doesn't examine the broader homophobia of the army. It doesn't examine the broader homophobia of our society.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Yeah. So even the him using it to get out of something, like there's something kind of interesting there because his reputation, his sexual reputation is obviously important to him. Right? That's the episode that you talked about that you told me about, where he and Christine don't end up actually sleeping together. It's his reputation that she says, Well, what happened between us is our business. She was gonna let them let the rest of the cast believe that they had slept together. That was her kindness to him. Because his sexual reputation matters. And so there actually is something really significant and maybe out of character within the context of the 1980s. Like that's the progressive move in some ways.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Except that it's also made clear that he's a coward.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

He's willing to, he's willing to sacrifice his reputation to protect his life.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

More complicated than I expected, honestly, when we hit record, when I was remembering this character in my head. All right, let me see if I can reflect back to you quickly. So, Nightcourt, this TV show, this sitcom, very funny. Because of slapstick and physical comedy, because of like the repetition and sort of iteration of the same joke over and over again. One of the things this sitcom had was heart, is the way that you talked about it. Every episode was a very special episode

Key Takeaways And How To Support

SPEAKER_00 48:55

because it had this sort of moral to it that you described as sunny, as optimism, as like Reinhold Wiege making it something that like maybe families could consume together. Although there's some pretty not family-friendly stuff in it from my memory. Notably Dan Fielding, sexual predator, yes, but also kind of a mensch in disguise. I don't know. Can he be a mensch if it's in disguise? Probably. Some of the way that kind of shows up is by making him the butt of the joke. And so we see that he's a mensch. We we have the show tell us that his reprehensible behavior has consequences because he ends up hogtight on his desk or whatever. But there's so there's like you described it as giving with one hand and taking with the other. And that is in particular with sort of his behavior and misogyny, also the transphobia, also the homophobia. Fat phobia, not so much giving, really just taking. We didn't talk about specific examples, but you named that. We also named TV writing then versus now, based on how we consume. So then each episode really was a standalone. If you missed an episode, you could pick right back up. And now seasons are meant to have much more of an arc than they once did. And that you described like wondering if that was freeing for the writers to a certain extent, because they only had to worry about the 24 minutes right in front of them. But that also means there's like continuity errors when we watch things the way we watch them now, which is to binge them all at once. I think lastly, I think the show contributed or traded on this sort of idea of New York in the 1980s as being like really kind of a shit show. And you named that by placing this in court at night in New York in the 80s, in some ways it was really a smart writing move because it's such a ripe ground for like interesting, kooky, weirdo characters who come through that, like you're like, as a viewer, you're like, Yep, I believe it. It's New York and it's night court. Like, so the boring cases went to daytime court. What I forget.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

The cast altogether, like every single member of the cast, it's a really good, like, group dynamic because each member of the cast brings something different. And so it's a like a workplace comedy where you have that. Like you always have like that with a workplace comedy. And it took them a little while because there's only three cast members who are there from season one through season nine, Harry Bull and Dan. But they did a really good job of creating this cohesive group of people who are all weird or like kookier in some way, but that they make this really interesting group of people that can like kind of work off of each other and work off of the kooky characters who come through. It's just very satisfying as a workplace comedy.

unknown 52:03

All right.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Well, next week I'm gonna bring you my deep thoughts about an American tale, which was the Don Bluth film that after I watched The Land Before Time, I was like, oh, I should have done that one first. So I'm circling back to this Don Bluth animated film for next week. Nice. This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make it free to produce. If you enjoy it even half as much as we do, please consider helping to keep us overthinking. You can support us at our Patreon. There's a link in the show notes, or leave a positive review so others can find us. And of course, share the show with your people. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod from Incompitech.com. Find full music credits in the show notes. Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?