The Devil Wears Prada with Tanesha Myles: Deep Thoughts About Intimidating Women, Niceness in the Workplace, and Who Gets Coffee for Whom Artwork

Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Comedy Podcast

80s and 90s movies and early 2000s tv may be called stupid shit by some, but you know it matters. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, sister podcasters who love well-crafted fiction and one another. In this comedy podcast, we look at the classic movies of our Gen X childhood and adolescence, analyzing film tropes to uncover the cultural commentary on romance, money, religion, mental health, and more. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, comedy to drama to horror, we use feminism, our super smart brains, and each other to uncover the lessons lurking behind the nostalgia of pop culture. Come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.

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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Comedy Podcast

The Devil Wears Prada with Tanesha Myles: Deep Thoughts About Intimidating Women, Niceness in the Workplace, and Who Gets Coffee for Whom

April 21, 2026 • Sister podcasters raised by 80s and 90s movies: Tracie Guy-Decker, lover of animation, Muppets, comedy, and feminism & Emily Guy Birken, storytelling nerd, mental health advocate, and pop culture aficionado • Episode 133

0:00 | 47:47

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Florals? For spring? Groundbreaking.

On this week's episode of Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, Tracie and Emily welcome Tanesha Myles to discuss the 2006 film The Devil Wears Prada. Like Anne Hathaway's Andy, Tanesha worked for a stylish, demanding, and overwhelming boss, who she describes as a "Black Miranda Priestly," referring to the character played by Meryl Streep. Both women bosses saw themselves in their employees and pushed them to their limits. But as Tanesha shares with the Guy sisters this week, both these women bosses also taught their protégées how to take up space in a world that expects women to make themselves small, perform niceness, and cater to men.

But Miranda's mental health definitely suffers from her way of living, as Andy realizes over the course of the film. She doesn't want to emulate her boss's approach to romance or friendship, even if she learns to take up space from her Prada-wearing "devil" of a boss. And as Emily (who has never seen the film!) points out, Miranda is sometimes kind even if she is never nice. That distinction is an important one.

By all means, move at a glacial pace. Whenever you put on your headphones and listen, you're in for a treat!

Tanesha Myles is the mind behind Her15Minutes. You can find her at instagram.com/herfifteenmins/

Pop Culture Is Still Culture

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're not just one thing. When we give so much to one thing, and then that's taken away, it's lost, whatever the case may be. It's like, what do I do? When you have someone like a Miranda Priestley, they've given their all to this one thing. And if you take it away from me, or if I lose it, I have nothing else. For me personally, I'm always thinking about how to strike that balance. I give myself permission to take up space in different places.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just up culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it's worth talking and thinking about. And so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit. I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit because pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, we're welcoming a special guest, Tanisha Miles, to talk about the devil wears Prada. She's going to share her deep thoughts with me, with my sister Emily Guy Birkin, and with you. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Tanisha, welcome to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

Listeners, Tanisha

Meet Tanisha Miles

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Miles is perhaps best known for her 15 minutes, which is a brief show on Instagram. You can find her on Insta at her 15 minutes. Tanisha loves musicals. And right now she tells us she is addicted to jelly beans, at least until they run out, when she's going to return to her regular snack of gummy bears.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Gummy bears, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Yes. So we pick the bear.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah. We choose the bear. Yes, yes, yes, yes. This is jelly beans. You summed me up. You summed me up. Yes. I'm on a sugar high today.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

So today we're talking about The Devil Bears Prada. So I'll just briefly say about this film. This is actually one of my spouse's favorites, my ex-spouse's favorites. So I actually have seen it a number of times because they really love this movie. So kind of what's in my head is like, well, Miranda, the boss. The thing that I always think of first is the belt, where there's like two belts that are very, very close and like they're agonizing over which one is right. That's the scene that comes up for me when I think about this movie is like the sort of minor differences that the average person and the, I can't even think of her name, but the protagonists like don't see initially. But like how important. Andy, thank you. But how important they are to the folks who are living in that world. That's that's what first comes up for me. And what's in your head about Devil Wears Prada? Don't hate me, but I haven't seen it. Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

I've I've never seen this film. So is there anything? Is there anything in your head? So this is one of those films where because it's in the zeitgeist, I've kind of picked some things up. And I love Anne Hathaway. So she's one of the people who like diaries.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

You love her.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Yes. Yes. And like I would love for her to play me in the movie of my life. Not that I would like ever think that she'd like I could get an Anne Hathaway to play me in the movie of my life, but you know, girl can dream. So and I also, the style of Meryl Streep as Miranda Priestley in this is just like iconic. You know, I've seen so much of that. So that's kind of what's in my head is is like the way that Meryl Streep conducts

First Impressions Of Prada

SPEAKER_03 3:55

herself because I've seen like the memes and what's going on with that. So it's more about the feelings about this film rather than anything about the plot. Um, I know it's in like the world of fashion, and that I think that's part of the reason why I haven't seen it, because that is just a little bit outside, not just a little bit, that is outside of my wheelhouse. I get it. Even though I I truly enjoy other things, like I I was very much someone who loved Sex in the City, which is very much about fashion. Um, and and I think in this a similar sort of thing, um, it just kind of passed me by, and then I never got back to it. So I'm not tabula rasa, like I'm I'm familiar with the film, I just haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Okay. Okay, all right. The sequel's coming out. You can you can start backwards. You can look at the sequel and work your way backwards. So that that hurts my heart to do it that way, though.

unknown 4:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

So, but Tanisha, like, why do you love this film? You made it clear you love this film. Like, why is this film so special to you?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

It's so special to me. So, first of all, I'm not into fashion, but I am into fashion. And so I loved the fashion in the movie. That's number one. And I love anything that shows a glimpse into a society in which I don't live in. And so just to have like that window into what happens in the fashion industry, I watched the series September, I think with the editor of Vogue and all that kind of stuff. So I'm like very intrigued about people's stories. I fell into living in this movie

Living The Movie At Work

SPEAKER_00 5:46

in a former career of mine. I I was actually living in this movie and I didn't even know it. So I left the federal government and I went to go work for a large nonprofit here in Washington, D.C. And I was very hesitant to accept the position. So on the third interview, I didn't anticipate meeting with the CEO. And the head of HR says to me, you know, she's available, she's just leaving out of a meeting. Can you stay? And I'm like, okay, sure, I can stay. And she walks in the room. And she walks in the room. She is a black Miranda walking in the room. I mean, she is polished to the nines. I'm like, what is happening here? And so I immediately started in my head editing what I had on. I'm like, what do you like? What are you wearing? And there is a scene in the movie where Miranda says to Andy, like Andy, and she just kind of pauses and she kind of looks her up and down to indicate, like, what are you wearing? Like, this is the fashion industry. What do you have on? And so I immediately start going over like my shoes, my, you know, everything. Like, what do you like the side that I had my part on and my hair? I'm like, what is like I I felt immediately intimidated. And I'm not very intimidated. And she was just a very polished, well-presented person. And so I go back and I told my coworker, you know, when you're getting ready to leave a job, you only tell one coworker, I'm looking, I'm leaving any day, I'm out of here. So I'm telling her about it. And she's like, She's a bitch. I said, Well, how did you get that? She's like, I can tell already. Are you sure you want to go? And I said, Oh my gosh. And I could just tell that she was going to be extremely needy. And that had not been my experience. And when I say needy, I meant very needy. And I start thinking about my age, where I was in my career. I said, oh my gosh, this is something that like entry level, I don't know if I can do all of this, but the salary is $20,000 more. So maybe I can't do it. I don't know. Like I'm going through all these things. So I ended up accepting this position. And I can just tell you that I have personally lived so many scenes of that movie. So many scenes. The spilled coffee, where she says, I need to have my coffee. And this is not an entry-level position for me. I was in a senior leadership role, but also supporting the CEO. And this is how she worked. And every day, I have to be honest with you, for the first month, I cried like at least two to three times a week.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Because I said I've made a mistake. Because it was so stressful. I wasn't a spring chicken. I didn't imagine that at this level in my career, I'd be slopping coffee and running across the street and all of these crazy things. I'm like, this is insane. Like, what am I doing? So I've lived this movie. And yeah. Did you see the movie after you had this job? I saw the movie before. Okay. Okay. And I didn't even put two and two together until my former coworker says to me, She's like that lady in that movie. What's the name of that movie? And we both said at the same time, the devil wears Prada.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Huh. Okay. All right. I definitely see what's at stake for you then. If it sort of like describes your life. Yes. But especially since Emily hasn't seen it, can you remind us of like the basic plot or the characters of Devil Wears Prada? Like, what are we working with here?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

So, so Andy is a journalist who's just graduated from college and she is looking to break into journalism, whether with the magazine, a newspaper, or something like that. And she ends up getting an interview with one of the top fashion magazines. And she, I don't want to say that she looks homey, but she kind of looks a little homey. She's really not into fashion at all. She's kind of a nerd in a sense. And she enters this world where fashion drives

Plot And Character Reset

SPEAKER_00 10:30

everything. And so she needs a job. She goes into this situation. And Miranda Priestley is the editor-in-chief of this like amazing fashion magazine. And she is like an A personality. She's not very warm, but yet she is warm in her own way. She's not really a B, but she is a B, if that makes sense. She's she's she's not nice, but she is nice. And so it really is my story with this one particular organization that I was working with. Because what ends up happening is she sees something in Andy that Andy didn't recognize in herself. That you're more than what you thought you were. Right. And she kind of pulls Andy into her sphere. And so it disrupts her personal life. And in some ways, it's for the better because her friends actually, like her boyfriend, he actually took a career risk and moved to a whole nother state, got a much better job just by looking at her in this transition. Her experience really affected everyone around her. But it was also a cautionary tale because Miranda Priestley was on her third divorce. And her career, you know, the sacrifices that she had made to reach this level of success really cost her a lot. And at one point, Andy sees herself in Miranda because now she's having problems with the boyfriend, her friend circle, they're starting to pull back. They don't understand this new Andy. They're really not in support of it. And I can just tell you that all of those emotions, all of those feelings, all of those situations, I found myself in. So I was living in the devil where's Prada. It was, I mean, in this one organization, I probably walked through every scene of that movie with this organization. You know, there was one point in the movie where, so Miranda has a first assistant, second assistant, and the first assistant was making fun of her about the way, you know, the way she was dressed and all of the things. She didn't understand any any fashion lingo, none of that. And so the friend of one of the one of the first assistant's colleagues said, How did she get this job? Like, what is she doing here? Do you see what she's wearing? And I remember for months, the director of finance kept saying to me, Did she meet you before you were hired? Are you sure she met you? Like he kept asking me that. He said, Did she meet you? When did you meet her? Did you meet her on the first interview, the second interview? He's like, You're not gonna last. You're not gonna last. You're not gonna last. You're not gonna last. And so it was this running joke in the office that I wasn't gonna last. And I have to tell you, in this moment, she's one of my closest friends. Wow. And I think, and I don't want to see it, because I don't think it's gonna be any good, but I think we're gonna see in the sequel Miranda and Andy's relationship develop to more of a friendship. I think that's where it's gonna go. But I don't want to see it.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

So at the end of the film, Andy leaves, Ann Hathaway leaves her position, and she's like looking to get another job, and she gets a um, she doesn't know this happens, but she finds out that Miranda has called the editor of this new newspaper or magazine or whatever it is that she's applied to and said, You're an idiot if you don't hire her. Yes. So even though like things were like weird and strained and like a bitch but not a bitch, and all the things. Yes, like even after Andy has left, now Miranda calls up her colleague at this other publication and is like, you need to hire this person. So Miranda's advocating for her behind the scenes. There's nothing in it for Miranda at that point.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

That like the only thing is maybe I could make an argument that Miranda is validating her own hire, but even that I don't think so because she fires people all the time. Yes. So there really is nothing in it for Miranda. So, like, I think so that you see that, Emily, like sort of some of the underscores, because Miranda's very short with and condescending to, like, just not warm is an understatement for the way this character, these two characters interact.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

And so the fact that despite all of that, like tension and friction, we learn after the fact that there was respect. Um, which so I'm telling you all of this, Emily, all of this, and and reminding our listeners of this because I want to ask you, Tanisha, like, so you lived this movie, and I can see why then that would make it really special to you. And like, because it's real, right? You see the like, you feel seen in a way, I expect, by seeing this movie that reflects experiences that you had. Absolutely. So the question I have, like, there's being seen, and then there's like, and what do I want people to know about it? Like, does it give those lessons? Like, and what are they? Of the like, I've never been in, I wouldn't last. Like the colleague who said that to me would have been right. Because, like, if I'm crying myself to sleep a couple times a week, like, I'm out. It's not for me. So, like, I'm curious, like, so what are the lessons that viewers of this movie who have not lived it, forget about fashion, just in that boss and employee relationship that you have lived, that now this person is a friend of yours. Like, what are the things that are baked into the movie that you want to make

Grace Under Pressure Lessons

SPEAKER_04 16:45

sure people know about this kind of a relationship since you've lived it?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I think people should give themselves more credit, more grace, and be willing to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Because I have found personally for me, it has been in those uncomfortable, unfamiliar spaces, is where my superpower has shown up. It's where I've grown, it's where I've stretched, it's where the next evolution of Tanisha was formed. And had I not really stuck with it, some of the things that I'm doing today is a direct correlation to me being in that space and allowing myself to be challenged and to be uncomfortable. Like I said, I'm not a very easily intimidated individual. And really what happened was there's a moment in the movie when Miranda says to Andy, I hired you because I see myself in you. And so what she was doing, whether we can talk about the method, right? It was a little brutal. But what she was doing was she was helping her develop to a station, a place in her career that she hadn't even considered. And for me, it was the same thing. When she saw me, she saw herself. And likewise, when she walked into that room, oh, and all that glory on the interview, and it's like all of the lights and the like, oh, who is this person? In that moment, very honestly, when I left that interview and I got in the car and I called my best friend, I was like, I want to be this chick. When I walk into a room, I went, oh, I want the heavens to open up. I want the seat because she was so very well spoken, polished. Her presentation was flawless. She's the CEO of a large organization. This is where I see myself. So I think it it was the both in. And I would just say that don't immediately discredit or discount or run away from situations that are uncomfortable. That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

I think the thing you just said is really interesting. I want to just reflect, like, tease it out just a little further. And then I see that my sister has something she wants to share. So when I think about this movie, like I'm often like, you know, Andy turned into someone she didn't even recognize. Like, I don't know if this was a good thing for her. But what you're suggesting, which I really like, is that it wasn't about fashion. It was never about fashion. It was about taking up space and allowing oneself to take up space. And Miranda Priestley does it go, like goes too far because even in her personal life, she takes up so much space that she pushes her husbands away, right? Right. So like she's not, it's it's we don't want Andy to become Miranda. But the sense that Andy's relationship with Miranda like allows Andy to take up more space, that feels like a really important framing of that relationship that I

Learning To Take Up Space

SPEAKER_04 20:10

I didn't have before we hit record today. Like I wasn't thinking of it that that way. I was thinking about like pushing her to know her limits and like you know, pushing her to like think about more details and like some of those things. But the actual like permission to fill a role.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

I had not been thinking of it that way. And I think that the way you just described it, even in your like, I want to be this chick, in that first moment, like there's a degree of that that we see eventually Andy gets to. She doesn't want to push her husbands away, husband away, but she wants to like have presence. I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Yeah. So the thing that struck me with the fact that Miranda like advocates for Andy at the end to get her the that other job. And then with the fact that she is unapologetic about firing people, is we as women are so like pushed to be nice. And it sounds like Miranda is not nice, but she is kind. And like, and that's a weird thing to say, because like I know just the because of the zeitgeist, I know like kind is not the word you'd think of when you think of this character. But that is a very kind thing to do when she she advocates for Andy, because it is like no one would judge her for not doing it. That is a kind thing to do to advocate for her and say you're you'd be an idiot to not hire this person. And so, and like that kind of fits in with what you're talking about, with taking up space, which is like I refuse to perform niceness. I refuse to fit into this societal idea of what women are supposed to be and make myself small and you know, do the performative niceness, which is often cruel. Like performative niceness is often like you say one thing and then you cut someone behind their back. Yeah. And I have no idea if there's anything like that within the film.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Yes. There is a moment. Yeah.

unknown 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

With the the creative director, is that the one you're thinking of when she cuts him out? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yeah. But taking up space, which is often considered bitchy when a woman does that. And being direct, which is often considered bitchy. Um, and like refusing to be to apologize, refusing to be anything other than who you are. Like it's revolutionary while still maintaining that inner core of decency and kindness. I think that's something that is worth aiming for as well. Again, like the devil wears Prada. There's a reason why that's the title. Yeah. Like she sounds like a nightmare boss. But I would rather my goal in life is to be kind, not nice. That's a tension there that I think is um, and it sounds like Andy at the beginning was nice, but not necessarily kind. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Maybe. I mean, is it really the devil wears Prada, though? Because was she really a devil? Right. Thinking back on it, she really wasn't a devil. And she saw herself in Andy not just with her ambition, but also in some of the not so nice things. Because at one point, Andy is offered an opportunity to go to Paris, and the first assistant was supposed to go, and something happened. And she's like, Oh no, I can't do that, Miranda. And Miranda's like, yes, you can. She's like, no, I can't do that. I'm not that person. And she confronts it, it was like a mirror moment because she said, You've already done it. So it's like you're giving, on one hand, you have all of these thoughts about how I do what I do. But at the end of the day, you would

Nice Versus Kind Leadership

SPEAKER_00 24:00

do the same thing, or you have done the same thing already, but because it has not been as elevated as where I am, it's been kind of hidden. And so you're really not as nice as you think you are, because it starts to show with the friend group, and then it shows up at work. So I don't think Andy was really as nice as it appeared on the surface, and Miranda wasn't as mean.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Let's talk about that moment with the creative director, though. Remind me, like I just in my head, there's some credit that she takes for his work or something. But remind me what it actually, because I don't know if that's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

So what was happening was there was some merger of sorts, and Miranda had recommended her creative director to take on a much higher role in this new magazine. But what she didn't realize was in doing that, they were looking to replace her. And so when she found out, she kind of finagled things from behind the scenes and she worked it so the person that was supposed to take her job actually took the creative director's job. And so it saved her job, but it kept him in his the position that he was in. And so Andy looks at him and he says, She'll pay me back for this. And then Andy says, Will she? You know, and he goes, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Yeah, I remember in my memory, he's like deeply disappointed by the news. Like he and Andy are together when when it comes out, and he and he's he's surprised by it by the announcement. So that's a moment, um, like when you were like, I don't know if there's a moment that's like not kind. Like that's the moment that Tanish and I both were, I think, like, oh yeah, there's a there's definitely a like because he's been 18 years with her, yeah, like supporting her for a long time. Like they are a a partnership in creating the magazine. Like she's the editor in chief and he's her creative director. So they've been like creating this magazine together for all of this time. They are a partnership. Yes, yeah, yes, and she just like in that moment, he realizes she's at the podium. So she hasn't even told him in advance, right? Like she he hears it, he thinks one thing is happening and then it gets announced that this other thing is happening that is not what he thought was gonna happen and is not good for him. And yeah, he hopes that she'll make it right somehow, but he has no way of knowing.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

But also, she's at this point in she's at this point in her life where work is all she has. Like she doesn't have anything else. She's on her third divorce, she sacrificed everything for this, so she can't lose the one thing because this is it. This is the only thing that she can control. This is the only thing that she has. That's pretty sad. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

That was pretty sad.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Yeah. And that that feels like a cautionary tale for Andy and for and for us washing, right? About to put it in the terms that I said earlier, like when taking up space in this particular role becomes your entire identity. Yeah. Then it's a very high cost, right? As Tanisha just said, like, Miranda has no personal relationships that are actually true friendships or that are lasting.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

I think it's hard to strike a balance, but it's something that we have to be mindful of all the time. You're not just one thing, you're not just one expression. And I think when we try to box ourselves and we, you know, the whole put all of your eggs in one basket scenario, when we give so much to one thing, and then that's taken away, it's lost, whatever the case may be, it's like, what do I do? And so I think when you have someone like a Miranda Priestley, they've given their all to this one thing. And if you take it away from me, or if I lose it, I have nothing else because I have not spent, I've not made any investments in any other expressions of myself or in any other relationships or in any other spaces, right? I've I've

The Creative Director Tradeoff

SPEAKER_00 28:40

done none of that. And so for me personally, I'm always thinking about how to strike that balance. Because on one hand, I want to be really great over here, but then at the same time, I realize I give myself permission to be expressive in various ways. I give myself permission to, as you say, take up space in different places.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

And I think it's challenging for some people because we don't really develop the whole person.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Yeah. Yeah. And then we don't know who we are when we lose that singular identity. I'd like to ask you about um sort of your impression from this film about gender a little bit, because like the way we're describing Miranda with her ambition and the taking up space and the very polis, like if she were a dude, we'd be like, now that guy's going places, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Like, well, that's what Andy says in the movie. Does she say it? I don't remember it. Like, she does. She says that in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

Even the sort of like the the devil association with her, right? Like, we wouldn't say that about a man, right? And Andy makes that plain in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

I think she's talking to the publisher from the other magazine that she meets in Paris.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

And he's speaking very negatively about Miranda. And he's like, admit it, admit it. She's like this, she's like that. And she's like, no, she isn't. And if she was a man, we wouldn't be saying this at all. I think that there is a lot of sexism in this movie. And you are 100% correct. If it were a man operating in the same manner, it wouldn't be a problem at all. It's when women show up confident, self-assured, self-aware. Not nice. Yeah, not nice. Tracy's like, she's not, she's not nice to you. Should just admit it. She's not nice. Um, I and I think I think that's a whole nother conversation because I think sometimes as women, we sacrifice the kindness because we see success in certain spaces as being masculine. And masculine looks unkind. When it comes to women, it comes off unkind. But I think you can be kind and still be successful and confident and self-assured and highly skilled and highly knowledgeable. I think you could do all those things. And, you know, it's just the world that we live in, and we're always trying to strike that balance. Her presence was very feminine. Her presence was very feminine. But again, her dismissive nature, not being kind, being very short, cutting Andy off, not really having any emotional connection with her. She didn't really connect with her. It was all business, business, business. I think for some women, they see that as that's been their example of success or leadership. We often say that women are very emotional and men are not. I don't believe that. I think men are just as emotional as women. It just looks different. Right. And because it looks different and ours is more so worn on our sleeves, it's harder to detect. But I don't think for one minute that men aren't as emotional as my ex-husband. He cried all the time. I don't want to go to counseling because he's gonna cry. He's gonna cry. And then I'm gonna

When Work Becomes Your Whole Self

SPEAKER_00 32:30

sit here and look like Tracy's head. Tanisha's not nice. Tanisha's not being nice. Because he's crying and I'm sitting here stoic.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Because you don't want to do the emotional labor.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

I don't blame you. I'm okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

One thing I am also thinking about is how we are programmed to think that kindness looks like one thing. I'm thinking about the fact that that Miranda is happy to fire people quickly. And like that seems like an unkind thing, but if someone is not a good fit, it is actually kinder to let them go so that they can find a better fit than it is to string it along. And now I'm saying that this is in a perfect world where we're not in like the the capitalist hellscape that is the United States and and where like our health insurance depends on where we work and that bullshit. But putting someone on a um an improvement plan and all that crap when you are in a job that you just are not a good fit for is so much more humiliating and painful than simply being let go, even though that is painful. It's a quick, sharp pain that is over quickly and is kinder, even though you're out the door, like putting up two uh middle fingers, going, what a bitch, than you would be if Miranda came to you as like, let's put you on an improvement plan and how can I help? And doing the things that we would consider to be normal, kind behavior. And so, like, that's something also to be thinking about as well, is like her shortness and her lack of patience, could also be a kind of kindness. Yeah. Just removing the fact that we're in a capitalist elsecape. Right. Right. Hopefully that means they get severance.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Do you think Tanisha, like w if we think about what you just said about Miranda being sort of one vision of success that presents like mimicking some of the masculine, I'm putting quotes around that word, ways of leadership. Is Andy the counterpoint to that? Like, do we see her as she develops as sort of a way to balance that, the so-called feminine and masculine leadership styles? I'm putting aside any argument we might have with labeling them that way, which I I do have, but societally they are viewed that way.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

I think so because I see Andy as being the best version of Miranda. Interesting.

Sexism And The Double Standard

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Without the trauma, without the experiences. She's looking at her from a fresh perspective, like, wow, this is who I started out as. But then the trauma, the drama, the backstabbing, the divorces, the life happens, and now this is what I've become. But I started out as Andy, very whimsical, fresh faced, very caring, very kind, ambitious, still concerned about hurting her friends' feelings. I think when she missed her boyfriend's birthday party, I think it really hurt her. I think she was really sad. I think she was really torn by that. I don't think that was an easy decision for her to make. But fast forward years later, looking at Miranda Priestley, after all of those decisions, right, she's has developed a callus in a sense. And she's not as emotionally attached. She doesn't, she's not as affected if she missed something. There's a moment in the movie where she says, I have to go to this party, have the car pick me up, you know, drop me off at 6:30, and I want to be picked up at 645. Like 50, I'm just gonna circle the room. Basically, I'm just gonna circle the room and leave. Like I have no intention on engaging with anyone on a really human level. I'm here for business. You saw me, I'm out of here. But Andy wasn't that way. And I think that when she gave her, when she called the the magazine for her and and gave her that reference, I think in a way she was protecting who Andy was. Like, you don't necessarily need to be over here. I I see some qualities in you that this industry, right? This may be too much for you. Um, and I think that she wanted to support her in her goals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

I think so. I like that idea that I mean, Miranda says she sees herself an Andy, and but so that idea that she's protecting her own younger self, like in part from the misogyny and the sexism, right? Like even having been there first and developed that callous, right? That then she's able to, in some small way, protect this woman who's younger woman who's coming up from behind so that she doesn't have to suffer quite the same slings and arrows that's a real that's that is a real moment.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I remember years ago having a conversation with my father, and I was following somewhat in his footsteps. And he said to me, You're gonna be great. You're gonna be so much better than I am. Now, as a parent, you always want your children to be better than you. But what he said to me, and I I'll never forget it even till this day, he said to me, Because you're not like me. You're better than me. You still care. I don't give a shit. That's what my father said to me. He's like, I don't give a shit. He's like, but you actually care. I don't care anymore. I don't care enough to do it this way or that way, but you do. You're different from me. And so that's why that moment with Andy resonates with me because I had a personal conversation with my dad that like I get it. He's like, You like me, you can do this, this, this, and this. He said, But you're gonna be better than me because you care. And I don't care. I'm like, I don't care. All of the things that have happened in this industry over my life has brought me to a place where I'm not as caring. And I recognize it. Because even when Andy tries to console her when she learns about the third divorce, she's like, Oh my gosh, Miranda, I'm so sorry. You know, because she's still soft. Is there any like she wants to hug her, really? Is there anything I can do for you? And Miranda just sits up, you can do your job. And she's like, and she shrinks back down. Okay. I think Andy

Andy As A Better Miranda

SPEAKER_00 39:40

thought that was gonna be a moment between her and Miranda. They were gonna get to hug and, you know, eat some cookie dough ice cream or something, but she's like, no. She's like, you can do your job. Like, I don't even, I'm at a I don't even give in to emotions anymore. Yeah.

unknown 39:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

Okay, so we're getting close to the point where I would sort of reflect back, but I want to make sure, is there something that you were like, I'm going on this podcast to talk about Devil Wars Prada? I need to make sure that I say, is there anything that you wanted to make sure that you talked about before we No, we covered it.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Okay. I cussed twice. I talked about my dad, which I rarely do. And so, yeah, I pretty much said it all.

unknown 40:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

We we cuss a lot on this show. So yeah, we do. You're in good company. Look. So yeah, I think I've covered it.

unknown 40:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

All right. Well, I will just see if I can reflect back. Uh, you brought a different perspective than I expected to this movie because of your life experience, right? So the reason that this movie was so important to you is because you lived it, not in the fashion industry, but with that sort of supervisor or supervisee relationship with someone who was exacting and demanding and not nice. I'm putting that in parentheses. It's not parentheses in quotation marks, because nice is not always kind, as Emily pointed out. So, sort of all of the ways in which we see, I mean, you said a couple times, Tanisha, that you lived every scene in this movie. So that brings a different perspective to this kind of analysis than we often have on this show. So that's really interesting. And one of the things that because of that, I think you illuminated for me is the way in which this experience didn't change Andy for the worse, the way some people watch this movie and think that's the case. And the way Andy's friends think that's what happens.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

Rather, it sort of it didn't even like strengthen her, like like work hardening, which is the way some people will talk about it. Rather, I think from from your experience and analysis, what I'm taking away is that this experience that Andy has working for Miranda actually teaches her that she is allowed to take up space, and that taking up space is necessary to success. Now, stepping on people's toes is not necessary. It often comes with taking up space, but it doesn't have to. Miranda does step on people's toes. And I think that the hope, based on your sort of your analysis and your lens on this, is that Andy, as sort of an earlier version of Miranda without the additional like trauma and like sludge and yuck on her, will be able to find that balance of leadership that takes up space but doesn't step on toes. Yes. Yes. We talked a bit too about Miranda as a cautionary tale, not of like a woman being too ambitious. That's not what we said. Rather, as a cautionary tale of someone who invests a hundred percent of their energy into a singular identity, so much so that if that identity, if that position in this case is threatened, she does whatever it takes to hold on to it, including throwing one of her oldest friends and colleagues under the bus. And so we viewed that the cautionary tale that I think a lot of kind of surface level analysis of this movie might take would be about women in ambition or fashion, maybe. That's not what you're that's not what you're suggesting. And I think that's really important distinction that you're making. The cautionary tale of Miranda Priestley is not about ambition, it's actually about like singularity and single mindedness that then robs a person of relationships, options, and identity at the end of the day. Because who is Miranda Priestley if she doesn't have her magazine? She doesn't know. She doesn't know.

What We Are Taking Away

SPEAKER_04 44:00

And that and that terrifies her.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

And I think that's actually also a really, really interesting like distinction for this film. I don't maybe folks are saying that that's not the way I was viewing it before we hit record 45 minutes ago. So thank you for that. What did I forget from what we spoke about? Oh, I remember Emily brought in, we talked about the difference between being nice and being kind. And Miranda is almost never nice, but she is sometimes kind. And that's an important distinction and one that I think I agree with Emily that actually is more important and more useful to our world. Kindness is much more useful to the world than niceness. Yes. What else did I forget? Anything? Just the protecting that soft underbelly. The way that Miranda was protecting Andy as the younger version of her. Yeah. And that that her the callus that she has formed, hopefully, can like be a shield moving forward. Oh, and then Tanisha brought in her dad when thinking about that. And the the you're just as capable as I am, and you still care. So you're gonna do a better job.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

I'm thinking in this moment, that CEO who I had all of those experiences with, her and I are friends now. And this was eight to ten years ago. And she is constantly reminding me, remember what happened to me. Remember what happened to me. Remember what happened to me. And she said, I didn't think about it. I didn't think about it. And so that's why I said, I believe that Miranda was trying to protect. Don't make the same mistakes that I made. And really, it was a good place for Andy to be in that moment because it offered her a mirror. And so she could, from that experience, make a decision. Am I gonna go this way or am I gonna go this way? And so it really gave her an opportunity that she wouldn't have had outside of that experience.

SPEAKER_04 46:05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. While giving her a model of what it looks like to take up space, but like take what's good and and you know, leave the stuff that is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I am thinking about this movie differently. So thank you for that. Yeah. Tanisha Miles has been our guest today. You can find Tanisha on Instagram at her 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

It is where she actually meets with women and talks about sort of the ways that they stay grounded. I had the privilege to be on her 15 minutes a little while ago. It was it was great fun. So thank you again, Tanisha, for making the time. It was great to be with you. It's been wonderful. And next week, I believe it's me, right? I'm gonna bring you my deep thoughts about Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

So excited about that.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

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Support The Show And Credits

SPEAKER_04 47:20

people. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod from Incompotech.com. Find full music credits in the show notes. Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?