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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
The Jerk: Deep Thoughts About Race, Comedy Genius, and the Unparalleled Thrill of Getting Your Name in the Phone Book
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You mean I'm gonna STAY this color?
On this week's episode, Tracie shares her deep thoughts about the 1979 Steve Martin film The Jerk, a comedy that never failed to delight the Guy sisters' father, no matter how many times he watched it. And for good reason. Martin's broad physical comedy and cultural commentary rooted in racial stereotypes conceals multiple layers of storytelling and humor in the tale of dim-witted Navin R. Johnson. Not only does the film follow Joseph Campbell's hero's journey from the world of fantasy, but the comedy works on so many levels that you can laugh at something different every time you watch it. (Although holding a dog in front of your crotch as you run naked down the street after the love of your life is always funny.)
Whether you can tap your foot to the beat or not, we'd love for you to listen in!
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com. For our work together, visit guygirlsmedia.com
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I do like feel like it's worth noting that the humor relies on racial stereotypes. It's sort of equal opportunity, and it definitely does so to skewer whiteness or at least white culture. Right? Like we are meant to uh see and believe that like the white preferences that are coming out of Naven are worse. Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it's worth talking and thinking about. And so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit. I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I'll be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1979 comedy classic The Jerk with my sister, Emily Guy Birkin, and with you. Let's dive out. My name for a second there, didn't you? I almost called you Emily Guy Ducker. So I know you saw this movie because we watched it together when we were kids, but tell me what's in your head about The Jerk.
SPEAKER_00:Mostly snapshots. So I remember I was born a poor black child. And I remember that. I remember, you mean I'm gonna stay this color? I remember that he makes like a thing that goes on the bridge of your glasses so to keep them. Oh, so you don't you don't have to touch the sides to keep them up. Because they're there, people end up being cross-eyed. So he makes a huge amount of money from that, but then there's lawsuits because people become cross-eyed. There's a point where he's really excited because he's in the phone book. And at the same time, there's a guy who's trying to kill him. Yes. You remember a lot. Um you actually remember a lot. And I think that's like I it's just it's snapshots. And then I'm not gonna remember her name, but that actress with the curly hair is a love interest.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, who was his girlfriend at the time. Her name was Brand Peters, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So I remember her being in it. And then I remember our dad, like when dad would laugh so hard, he would be like gasping. His infectious. I remember him having that reaction to this film, even though, even by the time I was watching it, he had seen it multiple times. He would still have that reaction to it. So tell me, why are we why are we talking about the jerk today?
SPEAKER_01:Well, it was on our list for exactly the reason you just named that. It was so like I remember dad loving the comedy. And so that's kind of why it was on our list. Why we're doing it now is because my friend Seth, who is a regular listener, was like, you guys should do the jerk. So so this one's for Seth. And actually, he Seth made the argument that this is the perfect movie for our show because it's deep thoughts about stupid shit, and shit happens. Like, there's lots of references to shit in the movie. Like there's a bit about knowing the difference between shit and Cheyola, and there's like a little kid wearing a t-shirt that says bullshit who's kind of important, and then his dog's name is shithead. So anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and then and he's kind of stupid. Characters. So I mean the whole movie. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So let me give you some postcards from the destination, and then I'll give you a synopsis.
SPEAKER_00:Although you pretty much remember the postcard uh because there's not much there. I couldn't tell you how those things are connected, but okay.
SPEAKER_01:So my postcards from the destination, I was worried, but this actually held up better than I expected. It's not perfect, so I'm not suggesting there's no problems, but it actually held up a lot better than I expected. So I'm gonna want to talk about comedy and Steve Martin's comedy in particular, because he has sort of a unique approach to comedy, which has been documented. People have written about it. So I don't know that I'm gonna add anything new to that conversation, but I do want to mention it. And with you in particular, I want to talk about this movie's critique of consumerism and about and wealth and money making. And it seems to suggest there are right ways to make money. I'm putting quotes around right ways. And so I want to talk about that a little bit. We have to talk about race if we talk about this movie, because Steve Martin, who was 35 at the time with prematurely gray hair, begins this movie with, I was born a poor black child. We have to talk about race. I think we need to talk about sex as well, because there's some interesting stuff. He's very sexually naive and just naive in general, and that gets explored for laughs, of course. And then think speaking of laughs, I want to talk a little bit about like laughing at versus laughing with, which in general I feel like we all agree laughing at's not so great. But this movie definitely invites us to laugh at Naven, that's Steve Martin's character, even as we enjoy him. So there's something really interesting in the point of view in that that somehow gives us permission to laugh at him. And then finally, I want to maybe at least mention sort of the social context into which this movie was born and this the kind of comedy it is, which we've seen in other places, like airplane comes to mind with this sort of gaga minute and like what was happening in the late 70s and early 80s in the US. So I want to at least mention that. So before we get there, let me give you a quick, I will do my best to make it quick. I'm not gonna go blow blah blow. I will highlight a couple of key scenes that are freaking hilarious, just because I might want to come back to them when we talk about the comedy stuff. So the movie opens actually on a cinema, a movie, and it sort of pans over these people like super dressed up super nice, like men of tuxedos and women in gowns, and then pans over to this like back stairwell where a couple of unhoused folks are lying around. One of them is Steve Martin, who talks directly to the camera and says, I used to be somebody, I used to have wealth and power and everything, but then something happens. And then he says, Huh? You want to hear my story? Okay. It sounds like my dog. And but he really does. That's really how he that's really kind of how he sounds.
SPEAKER_00:That's how Elbow sounded.
SPEAKER_01:I know that's how my beagle sounded when I would talk for him. So he tells his story, and it starts out, I was born a poor black child. And it's all in flashback. And so there's this big black family of sharecroppers, and they're like singing and dancing on the porch, and there's Steve Martin as Naven in overalls. No rhythm, like not just like bad rhythm, like so off of rhythm. Like it's like hard to watch a little bit. It's Navyn's birthday, and they're having a big meal, and it's all it's sort of stereotypical food. Collard greens, cornbread. Like that's what they're eating. But they say it's Navyn's birthday. So mama made his favorite meal, which is I don't remember what the sandwich is, but it's some sort of sandwich on white bread with mayonnaise and Twinkies. And that's his favorite meal, and she made a special for his birthday. And everybody gives him gifts, and they're all like little small tokens. And he's sort of the tiny Tim of this family, even though he's a 35-year-old man and there are other children at the table. Cause after he gets his gifts, he's like, Oh, thank you, everybody. God bless us, everyone. And then he like runs off to bed and he's like crying. So here's the big reveal. Mama tells him, You're not our natural-born son. You were left on our porch, but we raised you as our own. And he's like, You mean I'm gonna stay this color? Which is hilarious in the moment. He decides to go off and see the world because the gospel hour on the radio ends and it just turns off, and now it's musac. It's just like boring music. And all of a sudden he can like, he has the.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness. I remember I've never heard music like this before. And it is like the most milk toast white bread music, music. Yes. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And he's like, if this is out there, what else is out there? And so that's how he decides to go see the world. And he actually like can like tap his feet on rhythm and snap his fingers on rhythm. And so he's he's really excited. So he goes off to see the world and like so many gags to get there. In some ways, it's like a classic, like road movie in that sense. So he has these adventures. He ends up in in a gas station owned by Jackie Mason, and he ends up working for him and living there as well. And there are shenanigans at the gas station. The phone book scene that you remember, like he's talking to Jackie Mason's character whose name is like Harry Harot Harotini or something. I don't remember exactly what it is. It doesn't matter. He's talking to Jackie Mason's character about something about the gas station. And then he's, oh my God, oh my god, they're here, they're here, they're here. And it's like the delivery of the phone books, and he goes and finds his name. He's like, here it is on page, blah, blah, blah. Like right there in black and white, Johnson, Naven, R. I'm somebody now. Thousands of people look at this book every day. I'm somebody. And then, like, the very next scene is like some random dude, a white dude, like randomly pointing to a thing in the phone book. Johnson, Naven R. What a jerk. I'm gonna kill. Like, and he's a madman. And in fact, the subtitles say madman. Like, that's the dude's like character name. So this guy goes and is like trying to kill Naven with a long-range rifle. And this is one scene that I want to tell because it was so funny. He's standing there next to a like a pyramid of oil cans. Naven is standing in the gas station next to a pyramid of oil cans that's on display, like for sale. And the madman is shooting at him from the hills across the street and misses Naven and hits the oil can. And so it like springs a leak from the bullet hole. And then it keeps happening. And Naman's like, Harry, come look at these cans. They're defective. And Harry knows what, like, realizes pretty quickly what's happening and like points out the man across the street, like with the rifle.
SPEAKER_02:And Naaman's like, he hates cans. And he keeps running to different parts of the gas station to try and get away from. And there are cans everywhere. It's so stupid. It's so funny.
SPEAKER_01:Oh God. So I think in that same the the madman is trying to get a beat on him through the scope of his rifle, and he actually helps this customer whose glasses keep falling off. This is before the the he hates cans. The glasses keep coming off, and the guy's like, damn these glasses, because they keep falling off. And Nathan goes, I damn thee. I damn thee. And he points at the glass. Anyway, he fashions a little, as you remember, a little handle that goes in the bridge of the nose. And it's almost too far-fetched that this dim-witted man would think to do this, except he explains that he's like, it's like the tire rod of the blah blah. Like it's some automotive connection that made him think of it. So that he does, you're not putting pressure on the arms. The man's name is Stan Fox, and he's like super stoked about this little handle. Okay. So running away from the madman, he actually drives away in a car that doesn't have any, it has the wheels but no tires. So he's driving on all four rims. And he drives down the road to get away from the madman who gets in his own car and chases him. And he ends up in a like behind a fence of a carnival. And the sign says carnival personnel only, which stops the madman who stands at the gate and goes, He's not a carnival personnel.
SPEAKER_02:But will not actually go in. So there's honor among that end.
SPEAKER_01:I guess. So we get the movie gives us a number, a lot of exposition through letters that Naven is sending home to his parents or to his whole family. He's he's sending letters and like little bits of money home, like$2 here and 49 cents there and whatever. So we get some exposition that he wrote to Mr. whatever his name is, gas station owner, Jackie Mason, to say I could come back. And Jackie Mason said, Don't be a putz. You've already see the world, you've already seen me. So he gets a job with the carnival. He's doing he's guessing weight. And here's the one of the first like sort of money things beside besides him sending money home. He says that his boss comes over, he's a weight guesser, and he says, Oh, I'm not very good at this. I've given away five pencils and three things, and look, whatever the prizes are that he's given away. And all I've made is$15. And the boss says, Naven, you're doing great. You took in$15 and you gave away 50 cents worth of craft. So that's$14.50 a profit for us. And Nathan goes, Oh, it's a profit game. That takes the pressure off. So and then he starts barking like, get your way, guests, win some crap. So we his barking gets interrupted by motorcycle daredevil, a woman, Patty Bernstein. And she jumps through a ring of fire and he watches and he's super excited. And she's kind of abrasive, even in this brief interaction with her handlers. Like she tosses her helmet at one of them, like really aggressively.
SPEAKER_00:Is this Bernadette Hitters or is this a no?
SPEAKER_01:She's played by Caitlin Adams. So Patty Bernstein, and she's so she's and she like burps and spits, like she's crass, and she likes big makeup and like purple, short purple hair, and this like leather boustier motorcycle daredevil. So the next day, or sometime, I think it's the next day, she sort of takes interest in him and is like flirting hard, like takes a bite of his corn dog, and he's like, What about germs? And she goes, put a rubber on it. Anyway, she um makes him like put his arms up and turn around and like go like this, which is like a pelvic thrust. And she's like, Okay, get on the bike. And from a distance, somebody goes, Don't hurt him. He has to work tonight. And she takes him back to her trailer, which is filthy, like dirty, like food wrappers everywhere. It's just a mess. And he says something like, You can really tell a lot about a person from how they live. And I can tell that you're a really dirty person. Anyway, they through exposition, we realize they develop a sexual relationship. And this is actually from my memory, the family is reading a letter and says, I can only send you this much money this week, but I think I might be able to send you more next week because my friend Patty has promised me a blowjob. I learned what that word meant because of this movie. Blowjob. So, and like the fam Naven doesn't know what it means. The family doesn't know what it means, except his older brother Taj, who's like trying not to laugh. Because the mom is, the dad says, She must be a good girl, or something like that. And the mom's like, oh, bless her heart, or something like that. Oh man. Oh my. So next we see him. He's actually at the carnival running the little miniature train. And he finishes his ride and he sees a pretty girl. That's Bernadette Peters. She says, Oh no, have you seen a little boy? She's like calling for Billy, Billy. And she says, Have you seen a little blonde boy wearing a t-shirt that says bullshit? And he's like, No, I haven't seen him. And then we hear the train going. Billy is like driving the little mini train. So he has to like chase after him and catch him and like whatever. And there's immediately we are meant to see that there's chemistry between the Bernadette and Peters character and Navin. And so, and there's this really weird exchange, but they end up asking, like, he ends up asking her for a date. Her name is Marie. And they're supposed to meet the next day at the midway. Patty, the motorcycle daredevil, realizes what's happening and she like threatens him and like destroys the daisies he's picked for her. He goes and finds her anyway. They have a little date that gets interrupted by Patty, and Patty says terrible things. I don't know. She just goes away. So the next, because the next we see, they are Navyn and Marie are on the beach walking and singing, and one of them is playing a ukulele, I think. I don't remember which. Pretty sure it's Navin. And then they end up at like a campfire and they're singing this really sweet little song, like harmonizing. It's actually a very like one of the only like sweet moments in this film. Which even that gets interrupted because they finish singing and she pulls out a coronet, like a trumpet, and starts playing there. Which is so absurd. And like at the end, she finishes the cornet and he says, I while you were playing just then, I wished I had this fantasy that I could go in through the bell of this cornet and go all the way. And he says the whole thing through the whole length and end up on your lips. And she's like, Well, why didn't you? And he says, I didn't want to get spit on me. So they end up together, and he's totally crazy about her. And she lets him know that her mom wants her to marry someone rich, someone who has money. We get this exposition where she's asleep and he's talking to her. He knows she's asleep, but he's talking to her with this hilarious, apparently ad-libbed thing where he's like, I know we've only known each other for four weeks and three days, but to me it feels more like six weeks and blah blah blah days because the first day was like five days, but the second day was like three days.
SPEAKER_02:He does this whole thing about why it's different.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway, he says he's gonna, he's gonna propose to her. And so the next day he's in the tub talking to her in the other room. He's in this bubble bath, and he's like, and he's singing this little song about having picked out a thermos for her, and he's getting ready to ask her to marry him, and she's like crying and like writing a Dear John letter, which she slips under the bathroom door and then leaves. And then he asks her to marry him. She's gone. The dog, who I didn't even tell you how he got the dog, but he has a dog called Shithead. And the dog barks in response to his question. He was like, Oh, you've made me so happy, as if the dog bark had been her. And he says, Get in here, come get in the tub with me. And so the dog jumps in the tub with him. And he's like, No, not you, shithead. Where's Marie? And he realizes that the dog he can talk to the like the dog barks and it's almost like lassie, and he thinks he knows what the dog is saying. And so he gets the letter, but it's all like smudged and runny from the bathwater. So he's reading it out loud and like, I really remember this part.
SPEAKER_02:It's hilarious. So then he like gets out of the tub and he's like, good idea, shithead. And the next thing we see, he's like walking through the courtyard out of the apartments, holding the dog in front of his genitals, calling for Marie.
SPEAKER_01:And there's a woman like doing some yard work or something with her little dog, like a like a little yappy dog.
SPEAKER_02:And as he walks past her, he picks up her dog and covers his butt with it. So he's got shit in the front and this little dog.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, I gotta get quicker. I gotta get quicker. It's just so funny. So he's he's lost Marie. The madman shows up again. He's like, Oh god, not you. And he's like running from the madman. The guy finally catches him, catches up to him, like because he hits a dead end, and he says, You have to sign for this. And Naman's like, I have to sign before you'll kill me. The guy's like, Oh, I'm much better now. Now I'm a private investigator. And he hands him a letter and it says, Please come see me at this address. And he goes to see the guy, and he doesn't even remember the guy. It's Stan Fox, the guy who he made the glasses thing for. This guy has put this thing into production. He calls it the OptiGrab, and he's sold tons of them. And he had told Navin that if he was able to make money on it, he would cut Navin in 50-50, since Navin was the one who invented it. So he says, here's the first 250, and I'm sure there's more where that came from. So Navin goes to the bank and he's super excited about this$250. And the banker opens the envelope and looks at the check and it's$250,000. And the banker's like, You want to cash this? And Navin's like, well, maybe I'll take$50 and you can put the other$200 in an account. And then the banker's like, Yes, you know, he's like super excited. And then he realizes how much money it is. And then there's more, like he keeps getting more money. And then his he gets a phone call from someone and he says, Oh, Mrs. Kimball, oh, you're Marie's mom. Oh, you read about me in the paper? Yes, I'd love to know where she is. Well, that seems a little high. Would you take 75? So, like, Marie's mom calls and offers to tell him where Marie is if he pays her. Yeah, gross. So he's reunited with Marie, more exposition to his parents. Our one luxury is live in butler and housekeeper, but they're still in this tiny little apartment. The butler's like, with this much money, sir, why don't you buy a bigger house? So then we get this bizarre scene. I don't know if bizarre is the right word. This one actually feels like social commentary. He's there's a voiceover of his letter to his parents. Remember how I always used to tell dad that I wanted, and it's like this list of all these rooms and like absolutely ridiculous. Like an all-red billiard room with a life-size-stuffed camel and like unbelievable things. And he but he's saying it as if he's always wanted these things, you know, like outdoor gardens with S-shaped hedges and three swimming pools. Well, now I have that. Just really, really bizarre and like really extravagant. Oh, there's another money moment where, again, in exposition, he says, My butler's wife made an early withdrawal from her bank and had to pay a steep penalty. And then we see the butler looking out the window, the wife facing a firing squad. And like we hear the gunshot. So what? So I mean, I think I think that actually may be in context in 1979, is what that was considering. So Naven is living it up, like he's so naive, and they are so nouveau riche. Like they are at a fancy restaurant and he complains about the snails on her food when she ordered escargot. And like, I don't want any more of this old wine. Bring me this year's wine. I remember that scene, yes. And then like they have a tennis court where they have these big jugs, like water coolers of fine wine and this like Dixie cup, you know, one of those tubes, the Dixie cups you pull down, but it's got crystal goblets in it. It's just so, oh my god, it's so funny. They're having a big party at their house, they're in the disco room, and then Naven's on TV. So they ever be quiet, be quiet. It's the interview. So it's this interview where Naven was being interviewed by one of the news programs, and they he gives the first answer about what it's like to be a millionaire, and then they say, We were gonna show you the whole interview, but breaking news. And Carl Reiner, who is in fact the director of this movie, got the OptiGrab and has the cross eyed. And as a result of his like poor depth perception, he called cut too late, and there was this big car accident, and these actors would be alive, and so he's suing Naven R. Johnson for$10 million. And immediately all of his friends' friends, I'm putting quotes around that word, leave. And Bernadette Peters's Marie is like, I don't even care about the money. It's the stuff I'll miss. So there's a very quick court scene, and the judge finds him guilty, the judge has cross eyes, the jury all have cross eyes, and then so then we see him like at his desk writing out checks because the$10 million, but it was like almost 10 million plaintiffs. So he's writing a check for$1.9 to each of them.
SPEAKER_02:So Marie comes in and I'm sorry, she's in you.
SPEAKER_01:So Marie comes in and she's like, We've hit rock bottom, and he's like, I haven't hit rock bottom. And anyway, they like she's wearing her old dress, and they have this argument, and then he decides to leave. He's like, I don't need you, I don't need anything. And then there's this hilarious scene that is in my memory that comes up regularly. All I need is this ashtray.
SPEAKER_02:This is all I need. This ashtray and this paddleball.
SPEAKER_01:This ashtray and this paddleball and this chair. You know, and like, and apparently that was ad libbed, which, like, damn, Steve, that's hilarious. That is genius. Which is funny because then it gives a very funny sight gag where he's like wandering the streets, like with this chair and ashtray and paddleball and whatever the heck he picked up on his way out the door. And he's like sitting on a bench, like carrying this stuff. And then a woman walks by with a thermos that is like the one he described in the song that he sang to her about picking out a thermos, and you see him follow the woman and the woman come back out with all of his stuff, and him come out with the thermos. So now we've caught up. He's in the on the stairwell by the cinema, and his family shows up and they're like, Any of you heard an Avan R. Johnson? He's like, Hey, that's me. His whole family, the whole sharecropper family, and Marie. So as soon as he left, Marie called them and he's like, How did you find us? They were like, I don't know. This is the first place we looked, which maybe is convenient, or maybe I don't know. I'm not sure if I need to unpack that further. But anyway, and it turns, and then Taj, the older brother, says, Turns out dad's a financial genius. And dad says, All I did, wait, I want to get this right because it's you. So dad says, All I did was take the money you sent home and embarked on a periodic investment in a no-load mutual fund. And then Taj says, he leveraged his ass deep in soybeans and cocoa futures. So the family is now wealthy. And Marie and Naven moved back to the Mississippi sharecropping lands. And he says, you know, there were so many of us, the house was too small, so we had to tear it down, even though we loved it, and we built a new bigger one. And like the scene like scrubs to a blank field and then to the new house, which is like maybe 20% larger than the old one and just as run down. I remember that part. Yeah. Yeah. And then they're all singing and dancing on the porch. And Naven is actually able to dance on rhythm now. So there's so many gags that I didn't mention. Like I didn't even talk about how he got the dog who he's gonna call lucky because he thought the dog was saving them all from a fire, but there was no fire, and so somebody else is like, you shouldn't call that dog lucky, you should call it shithead. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's just there's so many that I missed, but that's the like you actually remembered that it's rags to riches to rags is the plot, and he's real dumb. And so that's kind of so yeah, I mean, yeah, it actually very sweet. I think so. I actually think part of the appeal of Naven, like I don't have a strong like emotional connection to him, but I do find him appealing and endearing. And I think part of it is like mixed in with the naivete is a certain degree of optimism and trusting, right? So he hates cans. Or there's a scene where he actually ends up like hooking, there's these credit card thieves. He realizes they're credit card thieves, and it's really funny. These three Latino dudes in this jacked up, this like sort of fancy car, and they've got like tons of purses in the car, and they hand him a credit card and he says, Okay, sure thing, Mrs. Nussbaum, I'll fill you right. Mrs. Nussbaum? And he goes, Oh, I'm Mr. Nussbaum. It's this Latino guy, you know? And he's like, Okay, Mr. Nussbaum, you know, and then he realizes it's a stolen credit card, so he hooks the back of their car to the church that's right next door, thinking he's like got one over on them. And then when they try then when they actually drive away, it like pulls off the whole like section of the church. And interrupts a wedding. So the groom is in the back of this thing that's being dragged down the road. Anyway, but with these guys, they ask, I don't remember, they ask some sort of question. He says, Oh, no, we have cash, but I keep it here because, you know, you can't trust everyone. So he's like telling these men who we as the audience know are not trustworthy about the money that he's got in his pocket. And it's that kind of thing over and over again, where he just this very trusting and very optimistic and sweet sort of, even the like, I'll send you more money next week because my friend Patty's gonna give me a blood. You know, like so, but he's very dim. Like one of the very first gags after the white man who's been adopted by a black family gag is his dad's like, if you're gonna go out on the road, I need to teach you something. That's shit. This is shinola. Shit, shinola. Yeah, dim. So let me just get out of the way.
SPEAKER_00:This film doesn't pass the back tail test. So Navin's mother and Marie don't talk to each other. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And Navin's mother and his sister, Alvi Alvira, they do speak, but they speak about Naven. It's also true that though Navin talks to other people about things besides about all kinds of things. But no other two men who are named talked about anything except Naven.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01:So I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Anyway, center of this world's universe.
SPEAKER_01:He really is the center of this movie's universe. So so that's like just get that out of the way. So I wanna actually start with the race conversation, even though that wasn't the first postcard I gave. So I was really, really worried sitting down, and it's not perfect because it leans on stereotypes, right? Like the black family is the sharecropper family, they're eating cornbread and collard greens, and they're singing pick a bale of cotton. Like that's the song that they're singing. Like, so it very much leans on stereotypes. At the same time, it does not punch down. Naven's family are possibly the only truly like morally good people in the whole movie. And it leans on similar stereotypes about white people with the sandwich on white bread, and like Navin like runs away from the table before he eats it. So his brother says, Naven, I I wrapped your sandwich in cellophane just like you liked it. And like the music being like white people music. Like, so I'm not saying that makes it okay. I do like feel like it's worth noting that the humor relies on racial stereotypes, and it's not just in one direction. Yeah, it's sort of equal opportunity, and it definitely does so to skewer whiteness or at least white culture.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right? Like, we are meant to see and believe that like the white preferences that are coming out of Naven are worse. Like this, like really delicious sounding meal versus this white bread sandwich with mayonnaise, like and the Twinkies like still in the plastic. Like where they so it's not punching down with the stereotypes. I want to name that. Also, because he sets himself up as I was born a poor black child, and he continues to identify that way. There's a moment where these real estate con artists are trying to convince him when he's rich, to convince him to invest in this new development scheme. And they want to assure him that they will keep the black folks out. And they say it in euphemistic ways that he doesn't get. So finally they use the N-word. They say, We'll keep the N-word out. And he says, I am an N-word, and like throws off his robe and turns into this karate dude and beats them all up one at a time.
SPEAKER_02:I have no memory.
SPEAKER_01:It's like so there's a degree to which this I think the comedy is the absurdism of it. But he uses that absurdism then again to like give racists their comeubins, right? Who sort of like here's this very white-looking dude who has white tastes, who they think is like one of them. I'm putting quotes around that. And then he ends up beating them all up. I mean, he also hurts his foot when he tries to kick Iron Balls McGinty in the crotch.
SPEAKER_00:But you know, it's a ridiculous movie. So well, it's also the fact that the happy ending is they all end up back living with his family of origin. With money.
SPEAKER_01:With money. So like it's almost like I think there was one commentator, I'll see if I can link, I'll try and find it and link to the in the show notes, like, who wants to claim makes the argument that Martin Steve Martin is so Aerudite that in fact he had like classic hero movies, hero stories in the Joseph Cameron. Like Odysseus. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's the return to the yes. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02:My sister's just made a face.
SPEAKER_01:And then he was making reference to specific classical heroes' journey. There's a a degree to which sort of the other world that he explores, if this is a Joseph Campbell hero's journey, that other world that he's exploring is the white world. He doesn't interact with any black folks except for his family. So while he's on his adventure, he does not interact with black folks at all. And he has this through sheer luck, he has this big win, but it's taken away from his j just as easily. Oh, this that I I remember this commentator mentioned Odysseus and and the Odyssey, but also Jack Kerouac and another of the beat poets on the road and another one that I can't remember. Anyway, if it's the hero's journey, then the other world is actually the white world, if you will. And it doesn't suit him, which is interesting from this all white production team.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. It's also interesting that, like, part of the gag in the beginning in the extraordinary world in the hero's journey framework, is this essentialism around around raise, right? He's been raised from infancy with this family, and yet his taste preferences for what he eats, flavor to preferences, his music preferences all seem to be determined by his genetics. Racial genetics, which is the gag. I mean, that's why it's funny. Like it wouldn't be funny if he were culturally black, having been raised by a black family, because that's what we expect. I don't there's something sort of interesting about that. But then he had to go experience the white world, and now he has rhythm. He's dancing on the porch in the final scene. I don't know that I have anything else to say about that, but like it's it's really like there's a lot to unpick there.
SPEAKER_00:Speaking of the Odyssey, it's the Penelope unpicking her uh her weaving. Her weaving just because there's there's so much in there that it's like it's in some ways very progressive and in some ways very regressive, and yet in some ways using regressive stereotypes just make a progressive point.
SPEAKER_01:And like, yes, exactly, exactly. So let's stay with that, what the way you just described it, and talk about money and consumerism. Because I feel like taken as a whole, this is a critique of consumerism because Navyn and Marie are meant to be seen as completely ridiculous with the way like we are we are meant to feel superior to them and their sort of nouveau riche existence, you know, like sending back the snails that are in the escargo and even the the Dixie Cup crystal goblets, you know. But it isn't wealth itself because dad made money on that no load mutual fund. And we're meant to admire that, right? So there's something which isn't hard work, right?
SPEAKER_00:That's a similar kind of like it's not luck, but that is a similar kind of it's something that you are able to get into because of luck. Because you can't invest in in the stock market in mutual funds if you don't have some money. So the luck that the family had, that the father had was that Navin sent money back. So he had some extra money to invest.
SPEAKER_01:But that's not the message. Luck is not the message from this movie.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and just what I'm saying is there's something similar to them making money in the stock market to Naven falling into the opto grab.
SPEAKER_01:That may be the case in actuality. I do not think that is the message that our movie makers are giving us. I think there is something about sort of dumb luck versus smart strategy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think that's actually the sort of the juxtaposition that we are meant to see between the two ways of making money.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and especially since so no load mutual fund, all that means is that it's a mutual fund that doesn't have fees. Okay. All in on it was like soybean and soy and cocoa futures. Soy and cocoa futures. So what that means is dad knows his business because he's a sharecropper, he knows farming, he knows those things, and so you invest in what you know. And so like he made intelligent decisions with the extra money that they had. Having that money was luck. And it was luck. Because it it traced back to Nathan.
SPEAKER_01:Well, not all of it. He'd been sending money from his very first job at the gas station where he made a dollar ten. Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00:But the actual investment, that's not luck. That's about leveraging the knowledge that you have to make your money grow.
SPEAKER_01:So the way you just said that, I mean, part of it maybe is just reiterating that Naven's not very smart.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, what knowledge does he have? Right. No, no, he doesn't. He's he doesn't know the difference between shit and shinel.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Right. Literally. Right. Well, and then what does the family do with that money? They build a bigger house, but it's like only a little bigger.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's not the sort of extravagant, like they are not guilty of lifestyle creep. Right. Like Naven and Marie had huge lifestyle creep. And that's what I think that scene with the voiceover. Remember how I always used to chit-chat with dad about and these ridiculous things that there is no way a chaircropper son was chit-chatting with dad about. Yeah. But the way he said it is he's that's I think that's how consumerism and lifestyle creep works, right? We convince ourselves we've always wanted this thing that like we do not need.
SPEAKER_00:Well, there's two aspects to it. There's the thing that was an when with lifestyle creep, the thing that was an occasional treat. So for instance, I get I get my nails done like every three weeks. In my 20s, I did that when I was in a wedding. And so that was an occasional treat that I had to save up for, or it was a special occasion. Whereas once once you're making more money, it now becomes like, no, no, no, no, I need this. Right. This is part of what I need now. And so your brain can't let go of the idea of this is a need when it was a treat or a want for a long time. Right. And then you can also kind of retroactively like, well, I always wanted this because like, right, look at it. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:The always wanted it is exactly what that that scene does. Yeah. Yeah. Let me come. I we're I want to make sure we get time to talk about comedy because I think there's a lot has been written about Steve Martin and his approach to comedy. And the man is really smart and like very learned, and like actually, like apparently self-consciously, like took a class in psychology about humor and decided to try something different. Right. Um specifically for this movie or or as part of the this movie as part of his trajectory from his stand-up and his SNL time. What I read said that he read that comedy works where you set the audience up for an expectation and then it like you create tension and then you relieve it with a punchline. And he decided, I'm not gonna do that. Instead, I'm gonna let them decide sort of what's funny. Like, so without telling them. And he also did a lot of like, there's a lot been written on him about the way that he juxtaposed things. Like one of his most famous stand-up things was, you know, the banjo gig gag, where he's like dressed in this white suit with a black tie with a Groucho Marks nose and the arrow through the skull and the pink bunny ears. He's just absolutely ridiculous, and then plays the banjo. And it's funny because he's ridiculous looking, but it's also funny because he is a very good banjo player. So it's like a virtuoso banjo player wearing this ridiculous stuff. And so part of it is the juxtaposition.
SPEAKER_00:It's really like Yo-Yo Ma showing up with an arrow through his head.
SPEAKER_01:Kinda, yeah. And that piece of it's was sometimes lost on folks, right? Like so over the top. But that sort of letting the audience kind of find the punchline is at least the what I was reading about, sort of his kind of brand of comedy, at least in the these early days in the 70s and 80s. And I think there's there's like multiple layers. Just like we like, I think we could have keep kept talking about like the race and the hero's journey and like how those things all layer. Like Martin is a master, I think, of that sort of like surface level absurd. You're laughing because he's got bunny ears on, or whatever, like this physical comedy. He's holding a dog in front of his garage. That's hilarious. But then also these extra layers, which is really fascinating in the context of 1979. Like Vietnam War is over, and like Americans want escapist comedy. And so they get it in his absurdism. But now, as we've been talking just in the past few minutes, we're seeing like, and also, if you spend some time there, there's really some interesting like conversation about consumerism. I think the fact that Marie is, I mean, the fact that it's her mother makes it okay for us to like her anyway, but Marie's a gold digger.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so, and that consumerism, and this like, it's not the money I'll miss, it's the stuff, which is hilarious, but also has a huge commentary on consumerism. And Marie comes around, right? Like she comes around and she like the moment he leaves, apparently she goes and gets his family to try and find him because she cares about him. It's complicated. I I think I find that really, really interesting in this movie and just in general, and thinking about what is funny and what makes us laugh and sort of the different layers of it.
SPEAKER_00:It's also fascinating, just thinking contextually, because it came out in 1979, which I don't think I knew exactly when it came out. I knew I was a kid, but I would have been a baby. But this is before like the 80s greed is good kind of like consumerism.
SPEAKER_01:It's almost prescient of that in 70s. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so that is kind of fascinating too, putting it in that context of it's coming right before that. Whereas in 79, Jimmy Carter was still president. And I do think it's worthwhile looking at like political forces that are going on. I've come to realize how much of like specifically presidential elections are pushback against political forces. And so with Reagan being a pushback against Jimmy Carter's presidency and the kind of political forces that would have a movie end with this the happy ending being what it was, and like a a uh commentary on consumerism. And then like in the 1980s, fuck you, I am gonna be a consumerist. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Though it's interesting, like that you name that because in he works in a gas station and there's this one shot, there's a sign in the window that says gas prices. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. So, like these single shots that were these like topical. Yeah, you know? Yeah. We're running a little short on time.
SPEAKER_00:Um, you did want to talk about like laughing at Naven.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's exactly where I was going. Thank you. So while we're talking about comedy and what's funny, like Naven is our hero in this hero's journal journey, but he is also the butt of the joke. And I'm not sure how to feel about that. Like, there's several moments where we see in the reactions of those around him, Jackie Mason, his brother Taj, like we see that other people see how ridiculous he is, right? Like Taj like can't stop laughing at the, or you know, is like trying to hold back his laughter at the blowjob joke. Jackie Mason, like about the phone book and at other moments, is just like, like, I mean, that Jackie Mason had a hugely expressive face, right? He's like, oh, this guy. Yeah. Look at this punk over here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. And so the audience is kind of given permission, I think, through those things to be like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, no, he really is dumb. And so we're given permission to feel superior, which we have talked about before that Americans really love that. That's one of our favorite forms of humor. Well, oh, I hadn't put that together yet. We talked about that a couple of times in the airplane episode, and then again, more recently, I can't remember which episode. But based on some studies, like Americans, yes, thank you. Americans' favorite kind of form of comedy is to feel superior, like we really enjoy that. And so this movie definitely gives us that over and over and over again with Nathan, who is also our hero. And I find that tension, like, like I'm judging myself a little bit for it. I'm just not sure where to put it. Like, I laughed out loud a lot watching this movie. And they're defin like it worked. I felt superior, you know, and I enjoyed it. And I'm like, hmm, Trace, that's not on brand for you.
SPEAKER_00:One thing I you know, and I'm I I am thinking about is like we're feeling superior to someone who is relatively privileged. I mean, like, yes, he was born a poor black child and all of that, but he's not.
unknown:I guess.
SPEAKER_00:And he's gonna be okay no matter what.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I do think there maybe is something to the subversion of the sort of middle-aged. I mean, he wasn't, he was 35, but with the gray hair, like the sort of middle-aged, like adult white cis man, sort of in that role that does feel somehow more acceptable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, if this had been like even a white woman, I don't think it would be, I think it would be a lot harder to watch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If if it had been a woman who was born a poor, poor black child.
SPEAKER_01:I suspect there is also something about Martin's delivery and maybe the optimism, too, that I named initially, and that sweetness that also makes it okay. Because he's not suffering as a result of our laughing at him. He doesn't even know. There's also a degree to which like the laughing at is a laughing with because he's always happy.
SPEAKER_00:Or I will say, so the first time I saw it, and I can't tell you how old I was, but I was young enough that I definitely understood why he was excited about having his name in the phone book. I would not have been that big, but you know how like kids are, we're like, it's my name, where people can see it. So, and I remember knowing that it was funny that he was excited about it. And for me, it was the way that he because Steve Martin is such a physical comedian, it's so big. But I also knew it was supposed to be not that big a deal. And yet little like five or six-year-old me would have been like, but it is, it is a big deal. I get it, I get why he's excited. And like the fact that I did not feel any tension in like I should feel weird about the fact that I would be just as excited. Well, not just as excited, but like I didn't feel any tension about that. So there's no, there's like there's not meanness in the making fun of it.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's right. There's not meanness. I think that's right. I think that's right. So I didn't even get to talk about sex because I do think there's some things to unpack with Patty Bernstein, who I don't know why they gave her a Jewish name, who was the motorcycle, like very crass. And like the movie does some slut shaming of her, I think. Yeah. Versus Bernadette Peters Marie, who is sort of virginal, although much sexier when they have money, like with showing cleavage and things. Like she's fully buttoned up in the beginning and very virginal, but then like when they have lots of money, she shows a lot more skin. So I think there's stuff about sexuality in there that I don't have time to unpack. So, listeners, go watch the movie and come tell me your thoughts about sex and what this movie has to say. Right. It was yeah, yeah. So let me quickly see if I can reflect back what we did talk about. So we talked a lot about race. There's a lot to unpack about race in this movie because it is such a key foundational backdrop for it that this white man was adapted by a black family. It relies on stereotypes, both of black folks and of white folks. And it's complicated. Like, I think I love the way you said it, that it uses regressive stereotypes in order to make a progressive message. But at the same time, like the regressive stereotypes, like, can we do that? Is that a thing? Like, can we use regressive stereotypes in that way? Like, it remains a question for me. We talked a lot about money and consumerism, and we map that to Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, where the ordinary world is sharecropper living in the beginning in Mississippi, and the extraordinary world is this white world where he actually, through dumb luck, becomes extraordinarily rich, and then through just as dumb luck, in some ways, like loses all of it. And there's definitely a almost prescient critique of sort of lifestyle creep and greed and consumerism in this movie, especially when we then juxtapose the way dad makes money. Whereas if Naven made money through dumb luck, dad made money through using a little bit of luck with smart strategy. And that seems to be the right way, I'm putting quotes around that, to get rich, according to this movie. There were other like very specific topical commentary, like the firing squad for early withdrawal at the bank or the gas prices. If you have to ask, it's too high for, you know, you can't afford it. We talked very briefly about the fact that this movie doesn't pass Beckdale, but also Naven is just the center of the universe in this movie, and very few people named male characters talk about anything besides Naven either. We also talked about briefly about sort of comedy, Martin kind of like having all of these layers to comedy, some of which are lost, the juxtaposition of the really good banjo player, for instance, in his stand-up set. But also, I think in this movie, some of this critique potentially that was lost while we were busy laughing at him holding a dog over his crotch. And on that score, somehow we are feeling superior and laughing at him in a way that doesn't feel mean, which is kind of a remarkable needle to thread, and maybe also speaks to Steve Martin's comedic genius. Finally, we talked very briefly about sort of the context of the late 70s and like folks wanting really like escapist humor because things had been so hard, and Steve Martin kind of giving it to them. I didn't even mention the fact that one of the screenwriters was the guy who wrote Jaws, that Carl Reiner was on this, that this movie got rejected a couple times for Paramount, and then Universal picks it up, or maybe the other way around, I don't know. But like, there's so much here. You should go watch it. What are you gonna bring me next time? Uh oh no, next time we're gonna have your friends.
SPEAKER_00:Next time, my my my good friend Joe Saul Sehai, who is also my co-author on the book Stacked, is bringing us his deep thoughts on the film Wall Street.
SPEAKER_01:So I am looking forward to that. This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make it free to produce. If you enjoy it even half as much as we do, please consider helping to keep us overthinking. You can support us at our Patreon. There's a link in the show notes, or leave a positive review so others can find us. And of course, share the show with your people. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod from Incompotech.com. Find full music credits in the show notes. Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?