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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Weekend at Bernie's: Deep Thoughts About Exceptional Physical Comedy, Dubious Personal Morality, and Pop Culture Touchstones
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What kind of a host invites you to his house for the weekend and dies on you?
Despite its status as a benchmark of late 80s pop culture, the film Weekend at Bernie's sounds like it should never have been greenlit. Two lowly young insurance employees find their boss dead of an apparent overdose at his beach house--and pretend he is still alive. The mafia boss who ordered Bernie's death sends the enforcer back to kill him again and again, and there's a love interest who has to be kept in the dark. Many shenanigans ensue. The storytelling is bonkers, the biology is suspect, and although the physical comedy is top-notch, the humor is remarkably juvenile.
Honestly, Weekend at Bernie's shouldn't work. But this stupid comedy is not only genuinely funny, but it gave us a pop culture shorthand we're still using nearly 40 years later. This is partially thanks to the chemistry and amazing physicality of the three lead actors who sold us on the idea that Bernie's death was a funny situation rather than a mental health nightmare. The film is still a pop culture product of its time, including the misogyny and homophobia that was par for the course in the 1980s, but it still offers more laughs than you'd expect from a one-joke movie.
Throw on your headphones and sunglasses, relax in a sun lounger, and take a listen! Just make sure you move every once in a while.
Mentioned in this episode:
Roger Ebert’s review of Weekend at Bernie’s
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Like the whole the point of the movie, like the reason why nobody notices he's dead, is he's the life of the party. Everyone in Hampton Island knows Bernie. Everybody loves Bernie, and it's because they don't actually know him.
SPEAKER_00:Have you ever had something you love dismissed? Because it's just pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it's worth talking and thinking about. And so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
SPEAKER_01:I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit. Because pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I'll be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1989 film Weekend at Bernie's with my sister, Tracy Guy Decker. And with you. Let's dive in. So, Trace, I know you've seen this film. It's just Yeah. I think it was like standard issue 80s childhood. We you were required to watch it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it feels like it was just sort of osmosis.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. So tell me what's in your head about the weekend at Bernie's.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so my recollection is these two dudes are like somehow get invited to their bosses, or I don't know what their relationship is with the dude, with the older rich dude, but his like beach house, and they go and the mob kills him. They kill Bernie. And for some reason, the two guys decide to pretend he's still alive. And so they like rig up all these things to move his body to make it look like he's alive. And then the mobsters are like, How is that dude still alive? So, like Bernie gets killed repeatedly, is my recollection. And I remember laughing a lot, which when I describe it, it doesn't sound funny, but I I remember it being very funny. So that's what's in my head about it. But why are we talking about it today?
SPEAKER_01:I can't remember how we ended up putting it on the list, but I do know that I was thinking about it recently because I used a gif from this film. If you can recall a few weeks ago, the president wasn't seen for like five days in a row. And this is a man who does not like to be away from the camera. And then he said he was going to have a big press conference at 2 p.m. And then it didn't happen, and it didn't happen. It was like 45 minutes late, and then it was like an hour late. And so I on social media posted a gif of the two characters with their dead boss like running together and posted how much you want to bet the press conference is delayed to give Vance and Rubio more time to practice this. Um because the I see. So this why we're doing it now. Because there were some suggestions that there was a weekend at Bernie situation going on. And that's kind of where this sits. I feel like in our cultural consciousness, this you say weekend at Bernie's and it means something. Like we know what that is. You pretend that someone is still alive who is dead, and you manipulate things based on that. And so if you'll recall, there's that episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where they encounter the species that speaks entirely in metaphors, like Shaka when the walls fell.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Shaka when the walls fell.
SPEAKER_01:And so I feel like weekend at Bernie's is part of a mare. It's like Shaka when the walls fell. Our meme. That's our metaphor. So I haven't seen it in it's gotta be 35 years. Yeah, same. So I was like, all right, let's see what is this. Like, is there anything more to this than the concept? The answer is no. Right. So this is gonna be a short episode, that's what you're telling me. But the fact that it has has captured our attention and the fact that like it came out what 36 years ago? I mean, it came out in 1989. We're still talking about it. And like and it's become a shorthand for something is meaningful. So I I think that's worth discussing. So I'm gonna give you like just a few postcards from our the destination, like we tell like to say. Something that I have thought multiple times because the actor who plays Bernie, his name is Terry Kaiser, and he is a working actor. He's still alive. He's in his 80s at this point, and he has had a long and storied career, but I only have ever seen him as Bernie. Like I've never that I know of. And I was looking at his career highlights, and I have only ever seen him as Bernie. Oh, you don't recognize the other one? So he's done a lot in theater and he's done a lot of like television work and things like that. So he's basically he's a working actor. Uh-huh. And uh so one of the things that I did not recognize watching this as a kid was the amount of work he does as a dead body and how difficult that was. And so, like, it just an appreciation for that. And then also like the even in a movie this silly, there's some really tidy writing throughout. So there's still some things to really appreciate. So let me give you just some like a relatively brief synopsis, and it will be brief because there's not much to this story. There's a lot of shenanigans. A lot of shenanigans that ensue. So we meet Jonathan Silverman, who plays Richard, and his friend Larry, played by Andrew McCarthy. We he's friend of the show, Andrew McCarthy. He was Jonathan in Mannequin. And so they are both, they work at an insurance company in New York City. It is late summer, it is hot as hell, and they are going into work on a Sunday. And because Richard is like a go-getter, wants to get ahead. Like he really wants to like go forward in his career. Larry's just kind of long for the ride. He's a lovable amoral slob. So while they're at work on the Sunday, Richard discovers, and it's really it shows you just how old this film is. They're looking at printouts from dot matrix printers.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow. I haven't thought about one of those in a while. He discovers that their insurance company paid out$2 million for four different insurance policies for one man's one man who died. And it's not that he had four different insurance policies, it's like he died four times. So someone is trying to fleece the company. So it's fraud. And so they're like, oh my God, we got to show Mr. Lomax on Monday that someone's trying to defraud the company. So they go in on Monday. Larry encourages Richard to talk to Gwen, who is an intern at the company. She's heading back to college soon because it is the last week of summer. Coming up is Labor Day weekend. And Larry pushes Richard to talk to her. And Richard like just balks, and like he goes to talk to her and he goes, My aunt is very ill. Because like he just can't think of what else to say. And she's like, What? That's a random thing to come up. Okay. And so they go in to talk to Mr. Lomax, who says, Please call me Bernie. At first, he gets angry at them. He's like, some can have more than one insurance policy. And then Richard says, No, no, look at the back. Some of these policies were taken out after he died. And then Lomax says, Oh my goodness, wow, you guys, this is great work. We need to like comb through things, make sure we found everything, but we have to keep it on the down low because we don't know who did it. Why don't you come to my beach house on Hampton Island this weekend? Take the six o'clock ferry on Friday. You'll stay the weekend. We'll figure it out. We'll have a wonderful time. And I'll give you a ride back to the city on Monday. Later that day, Richard and Gwen sees Richard and says, I hope your aunt feels better. And he goes and talks to her and gets a date with her on Thursday night. We see Bernie going to talk to clearly a mob boss guy named Vito, saying, You have to kill these two men because Bernie is the one who embezzled the money and did the four fraudulent insurance claims. At that meal, it's Vito and Vito saying, like, well, I don't kill people anymore. Polly is the actual whacker enforcement guy. And he's like, I'm a little rusty, but I think I can do it. Then there's I don't know the Vito's right-hand man, and then Tina, Vito's girlfriend. Tina is under the table, like putting her foot in Larry's, excuse me, in Bernie's lap. So there's something going on between Tina and Bernie. And so Bernie says, look, we'll make it look like a murder suicide, and we'll pin the blame for the$2 million fraud on these two guys. So bring my house on the island, pin the blame on them. I'll leave a note, take care of it. And Polly says, Well, I'm a little rusty, but I can do it. And so Bernie gets up and leaves. And then Tina immediately says, I'm gonna go powder my nose, and she leaves. Vito goes to his right hand man and says, Go after them. And so the right hand man sees Bernie and Tina set up a time for her to come see him Friday night at the apartment in Manhattan because he doesn't plan to stay on the island. And then Vito tells Polly, Don't worry about these two guys, kill Bernie because he's getting sloppy and he's he's sleeping with Tina. So we see the date between Gwen and Richard. It's going well. He takes her to a place called Jaime's Hunan, which is sweet and sour matzaballs. That's funny. That's very funny. Yeah. And she we've uh previously learned that Richard still lives with his parents while Larry has an apartment to himself, but it's tiny and cockroach-filled. And so Gwen is like they're like, let's go someplace where we can talk. And Gwen's like, Well, I'd invite you to my place, but I have five roommates. And she's like, I it was either that or live with my parents, and that just didn't seem like a good idea. And so Richard lies. So he doesn't want to admit he lives with his parents. So Richard lies and takes her back to his place, but it's his parents' place. And their date isn't interrupted by because his parents are asleep. Date is interrupted, uh, and he lies and says his parents are dead. And oh yeah. And his dad wakes up and comes through in his underwear to get a drink from the kitchen. And so she finds out and she leaves in a huff.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So the next day is Friday, Richard and Larry heading to the island. We see Bernie arrive there on his own private boat. He gets to his house and he yells at two different maintenance workers who he had hired. One is a guy he'd hired and fired who's hanging out there saying, like, I want my 90 bucks. And he's like, I fired you, you're not getting it. And like he kicks him. And then another guy who's like taking care of the plants in the house, who's a little nicer too, but is also kind of rude to.
SPEAKER_00:Is that to make sure we don't have too much sympathy for him? Partially.
SPEAKER_01:It also comes in later.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:And then Paulie calls from payphone on the island saying, like, hey, I'm here on the island. And Bernie's like, You're early. Those guys aren't getting here until the six o'clock ferry. And Polly's like, just remind me where your house is again. And Bernie accidentally ends up recording it on his answering machine. Answering machine. He's like, Well, you know, we'll make sure you kill these two schmucks. I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave the note here and all of that, basically outlining the entire plan. Pauly shows up, and so we see Bernie type up the note and put it in his briefcase. Polly shows up and he kills him with an overdose of heroin. So, which gives Bernie a kind of a like a grin. Like a beatific kind of a look. And Polly leaves Bernie with a pair of sunglasses on his eyes. Uh-huh. So Richard and Larry show up, the house is empty, and they just let themselves in. A woman comes by in a bikini and says, Hey, tell Bernie I'm taking the keys to his boat. And they're like, Oh, okay, well, we're his house guests. And she's like, Oh, yeah, the party just kind of roams around. It always ends up here though. So it's like kind of made clear that things are very loose on the island. Uh-huh. So they find Bernie. They think he's drunk. And so like they they like pick him up and take, like, kind of walk him to the um, because he's uh in like an office area. They walk him to the living room and they start trying to make coffee for him, which is when Richard realizes he's dead. Like he he falls over, and Polly had planted the syringe that he used to inject him and then a baggie of the heroin in his pocket and that falls out. And Richard finds that, and then he's he like puts his sunglasses under his nose and realizes no, this man's dead. And they're freaking out. And Richard starts to call 911 when the roving party arrives, and there's so much going on. And like the first person who comes in is completely drunk and sits down and is talking to Bernie and doesn't realize he's dead. And Larry quickly realizes, like, oh, we could still have our fun weekend, and is like, what if we just pretend he's still alive and have our fun weekend? And Richard's like, No, we're not gonna do that until he sees that Gwen is here on the island. He thought he wasn't gonna see her again. And it turns out she's here on this island too. He's like, All right, give me 20 minutes. And so he ends up going to talk to her. She asks him, How's your aunt? And he goes, Oh, she died. And she tries to go in. She's like, Oh, I want to, there's Mr. Lomax. I want to go thank him for the internship. And he tries to stop her and isn't able to. And she's trying to get in through to the party, and all these drunk men are stopping her and saying the most vile things like, Oh, that outfit is what you're wearing, is so beautiful. It would look even better, crumpled on my floor. Like that kind of awful shit. And yeah, and she's supposed to be like a college student. So, ugh. So she ends up leaving and is walking on the beach because she's like, I'm out of this shit. And uh, Larry and Richard have moved Bernie and like dumped him onto the sand to keep her from going to try to talk to him. So Richard then sees her walking on the beach. He goes to go talk to her. They are having a kind of a nice romantic date. They go up to a lighthouse, he ends up falling down the stairs. It's shenanigans. But he tells her, I've had a crush on you since the first day you showed up, and they're kissing on the beach when the high tide has taken Bernie's body and now it's washing up next to them where they're kissing. Yeah. And so she doesn't see what he does. He's like, Oh my God, I can't believe this is happening to me. She's like, It's happening to both of us. And he's like, No, you deserve candles and flowers and everything. Let's go, and is like hustling her back. And so he gets Larry and they bring the body back to the house and put it in his bedroom. That's when Tina shows up because the party has left at that point. Uh-huh. Because she had thought he was going to be in Manhattan, and now she's like, Yeah, he's like, he's cheating on me, which is like she's somebody else's girl. Anyway. And so they're like, Well, now the screaming starts because she's gonna find that he's dead, and he's she's in there for like 20 minutes, and she comes down like humming and like pleased with herself, and like, how did everything go? And she's like, It's better than ever. Like, and at this point, she had sex with a dead body, and Vito's right-hand man has been following and watching, and there's like huge windows, and so he could see what was going on. And so the right-hand man's calling Vito is like, I don't know, like Polly might have been more rusty than we thought. Bernie's still alive, she slept with him. So they send Polly back to kill him again. Yeah. So Richard at this point is overwhelmed and exhausted. He's like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna lie down for a little bit. Wake me up in the morning, we'll deal with it in the morning, we'll call the cops. So the next morning, Larry has set Bernie up on the porch with a Monopoly game, and he's got fishing line on Bernie's arm.
SPEAKER_00:On his arm. I remember that.
SPEAKER_01:So he wave. Uh-huh. So Richard like wakes up, is freaking out because he slept until 11:30 in the morning. Shenanigans ensue. They end up hearing the answering machine message and realize, like, oh my God, he was gonna kill us. They find the note because that was in the answering machine, they find the note. And the notes was that written from Larry that they had embezzled the money to pay for Larry's sex change operation, but then Richard had fallen in love with someone else, and so now Larry was going to kill Richard and then himself. Oh my god. Burn. Yeah. And then Larry's like, why has it got to be me who's having the sex change operation? And Richard's like, nobody's actually having one. And Larry's like, oh yeah. And so at this point, they're like, okay, we gotta keep pretending that Bernie's alive, because part of what was saying is like, don't kill them while I'm here, because I need an alibi.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. So they think that they think the hit is still out on them. So that's what I remember was that they were in like afraid for them themselves. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So Gwen at some point had come by and said, like, I want to talk to Bernie. And he's like, nope, Bernie's dead. And she's like, Oh, so like your parents are dead and your aunt's dead. And at that point, Larry had pushed Bernie off the edge of the porch to like try to avoid having her talk to Bernie and get shenanigans. So they they grab Bernie and try to get on the ferry. They'd have no idea who's trying to kill them, so they're avoiding everyone. They miss the fairy. Meanwhile, Polly had strangled Bernie after he'd been dropped off the porch and is leaving. And then as they're trying to get the ferry, like all three of them, like in a like a three-legged race or whatever, Polly sees them and is now trying to get off the ferry metal on the island. Because he thinks he's still alive. I don't understand why this is funny. And so they realize, oh wait, Bernie has his own boat. We just need to go get the keys because the girl in the bikini had borrowed it before. So they go back to the house, and that's when the two workers that we saw him be mean to early come back, and they don't know who they are. So Richard knocks them both out. There's the one who is angry because he was fired, and the other one who was taking care of the plants. He knocks them both out and then they lock them in the pantry. Oh my god. I know. They steal the boat, they tie Bernie up to the back of it, and neither of them have any idea how to steer a boat, and shenanigans ensue. Bernie ends up falling off the back of the boat and is like hitting dragged behind him. So people think he's water skiing, and then he's hitting like um, I can't remember what those buoys, but they're like metals.
SPEAKER_00:So ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
SPEAKER_01:Do you hear that? What is that noise? So then they run out of gas and they have to, they have to, they put lifelasts on all three of them, and they paddle back to Hampton Island on Bernie. And they, oh my god. And then they get to the house, and Gwen sees them getting out of the beach, and she comes to the house, she's really angry at Richard, and she's like, You tell me that he's dead, and I just saw you with him on the beach. Richard's like, I don't want to sound rude, but get the hell out of here. You're in danger. That's when Polly shows up and puts like six bullets in Bernie, and the three of them are like, We didn't see anything, we didn't see anything. And he three being the two men, Gwen. Larry, Richard, and Gwen. And so Polly's like his gun is empty. He's like, Yeah, but this one isn't. So they're running around, shenanigans in Sue. Larry says, Richard, take Gwen and hide. I'll um pull him away from you. And Richard says, Okay. And Larry's like, You weren't even gonna argue with me. So for ridiculously, Richard subdues Polly right by Bernie's body, and Polly falls over, and Bernie's arm grabs him. So when the police come, Polly is being hauled away in a straitjacket, going, He's still alive. I didn't kill him, he's still alive. And Gwen has invited Richard to her house for a week. He's gonna take a week off and spend some time with her. And she's like, You should come too to Larry. And behind her head, Richard's like, So, and Larry's like, No, I think I'm gonna stick around uh Bernie's house.
SPEAKER_00:Because we've already seen that he's completely sorry, listeners. Behind his head, Richard was shaking his head no and doing the cut, like cut cut your neck. Yeah, sorry, the gesture. Remember, it's an audio only. Sorry, sorry. I am a very smart person.
SPEAKER_01:And then they are they have loaded Bernie on a stretcher, but um, he falls, like they haven't put the brakes on, and so the body falls off the stretcher and lands in the sand behind Gwen, Richard, and Larry. And someone sees him and goes, like, hey Bernie, and they turn around and look behind him, and uh they like scream and run off, and that's the end of the film. I I don't like how did this film get made?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's become a cultural telephone as we say as we started here. So where do you want to start? Uh okay, doesn't pass backdell. So we have uh two named female characters, but they never talk to each other.
SPEAKER_01:Tina and Tina and we have Gwen. Yeah, they never meet each other and they never talk to each other. Yeah. So it doesn't quite a bit of objectification of women because there's a lot of women bikinis and just it's gross. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Oh, and so and listeners as a reminder, the Backdell test are asks three questions. Are there at least two named female characters? Do they talk to each other and do they talk to each other about something other than a man or a boy? So this film passes the first question, but not the second. Yeah. Okay. There's also like that. I mean, it's it it does advance the plot, but there's some pretty gross sexual harassment of a college co-ed when Gwen is hit on at the party. And like Larry is no, sorry, Richard, who's who is the person she actually ends up with, is doesn't sound like he's actually a catch. Like he's better than the guys who are like, that's a beautiful outfit and it would look better on my floor, but that's a pretty low bar, y'all. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He's lying left and right, and like, guys, not a catch. Yeah, he's supposed to be like the sweet one, but like how? Compared to what though? Well, because Larry takes Bernie's Rolex off his dead body. So ew. Yeah. And like, if they had pretended that Bernie were still alive because they feared for their lives from the jump from the beginning, much more forgivable. But they were doing it like Larry was just doing it because he wanted a weekend away. He wanted a party. And then Richard like was absolutely not. We're calling the cops until he saw that Gwen was there. And then he's like, give me 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's fucked up. And it's like a man is dead. And they think it's from an overdose. Like they don't, they think it's an accidental death. Yeah, that's messed up. So what? Gwen will still what? So like that well, I mean, she got the better of she got the best man in this film.
SPEAKER_01:Not by much. Those are not the only, and they're not the only two options in the world, Gwen. Honestly. Being alone is a better option. Your five roommates were at home washing their hair. Gonna be a better option. So like, and that that is one thing that I think is really okay. So I there's this like slippery nature of morality in this film. Because Richard is supposed to be the more moral of the two of them. He's the one who's like, when we meet him, he's waiting for Larry to get to work. And like, because it's he's like, it's 10:30. I said 10 o'clock. And Larry's like, oh, I'm early. I'm usually 45 minutes late. Because they're going to work on a Sunday. So like they're gone later than they normally would. And so, and Richard's the one who's like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna do this, we're gonna call the cops, we do the right thing. But like the minute it gets a little bit hard, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_00:So, like or the I mean it's the crush, right? The crush is the reason he like it's so it's not even hard, it's just like a different reward system.
SPEAKER_01:So, like the minute his crush says, like, oh well, it didn't seem like good, I don't live with my parents, he's like, Well, I would don't live with my parents. Right. Either you live with integrity or you don't. And so that like that slippery nature of of morality is grody. It's really grody. Especially like now, in the scene with the because he's immediately punished by the story for lying about his parents. Right. So, like, okay, it could be you could say, like, okay, it's clear this is not how it's supposed to work. You just be honest, just be yourself. But the thing is, like, when it's something even bigger, like this is a man has died. Right. Stop. Right. And especially when she's made it clear, because that was one of the things that she says, like, she's impressed with the apartment, and she's like, wow, this one's got cost a fortune, and like I'm kind of impressed you took me to Jaime's Hunan. A lot of people would have tried to like impress me with like a really expensive restaurant, and so like I don't like it when people don't pretend to be other than who they are. Oh so like there's this whole thing in there, like, she appreciates genuine people. So why is he pretending?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, the name of the show is Deep Thought. So, like, this is a movie about like a dead dude, right? So, are there like meditations about mortality in this movie? No.
SPEAKER_01:It's just a slapstick company. I mean, like, no, like they there really isn't much. Now, there is like there's a little bit like the whole the point of the movie, like the reason why nobody notices he's dead, is he's the life of the party. Everyone in Hampton Island knows Bernie, everybody loves Bernie, and it's because they don't actually know him. Like, he's just the host, he's just the house that everybody's a cardboard. He's a cardboard cutout. Who's like and so when he turns into a cardboard cutout, nobody notices. Yeah. So like there's a sense of and like Richard and Larry, at one point on that Monday, before they get a chance to s go in and see him, they see him going to lunch. Lunch in a really expensive car with a beautiful woman to a very expensive restaurant. And they're like, man, that guy has it all. And so there is a little bit of a like critique of that kind of culture.
SPEAKER_00:That status. So it's not actually about mortality, but it is maybe about humans and status. Is there's a commentary on that?
SPEAKER_01:A little bit on that these trappings mean nothing. Because you don't even have to be there for people to be like, that was the best party you've ever thrown, Bernie. Like they actually say that. And he's he's not even there.
SPEAKER_00:So right. Right. And also there's something about too about how quickly it can be taken from someone. Right? Like he has everything. That dude has everything. And he thinks he's getting away with it. And the his partner in crime is like, fuck that dude. Yeah. And then it's over.
SPEAKER_01:And like the he has everything. Like, what's everything?
SPEAKER_00:You know, like the every it's all stuff. Yeah. It's all well, the woman's not stuff, but actually she sort of is.
SPEAKER_01:Well, because it's it's not Tina in the way that it's Yeah. The woman that he's taking to lunch is not Tina. And it's not like it's a different woman is on his arm every it it's she is a prize. So shh, quote unquote. But yeah, possession of sorts. In in in the world of the status. Yeah, it's it's very much that like kind of 1980s yuppie culture. But there's not really like so you get a little bit of that kind of meditation, but at the same time, it's not really critiqued because we don't see Richard and Larry like learn anything from it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I mean it's critiqued insofar as Bernie pays the price for it. But there's no insight about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So like it's not as if Richard's like, you know what? Well, okay. When Richard says he's taken a week off and he's gonna go with Gwen to her house, Larry says, you're actually taking time off. You're taking a vacation. I've never seen you take time off. So there is that. That's not much. That's very little. And it's also like that has been his MO throughout. Like she's the thing that he'll change his rules for.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. That's right. So actually, he does it's not necessarily a change. By that interpretation, it's not a change at all. He's changed the way he talked about things repeatedly as a result of things that Gwen has said or done, or opportunities to see her or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So can we talk about this uh murder suicide? Oh my goodness. That Bernie wrote, because that's kind of icky. Bears some unpacking, maybe.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, like the homophobia and transphobia, like just built into that.
SPEAKER_00:I also was in particular because it's written to to shock and humiliate men.
SPEAKER_01:I also was thinking, like, how would that work? Like Richard's parents. How would what work? Well, so after their bodies were found and the note was found, Richard's parents would be like, No. Like, we don't know enough about Larry's life outside of work. Because we don't see much of it. But what we see of like Richard and his life outside of work, we can be pretty sure that his parents would be like, There's no way he would embezzle money. I know that he didn't have that kind of relationship with Larry. Like, no.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and especially in 1989, a relationship like that would have been so I mean, that was that's why Bernie would have written the note because it would have been so taboo that even your closest friends might not know about it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that they'd want to cover it up rather than investigate. And it's played for laughs in this film. And I I had no memory of that whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00:No, I don't remember that either. It's icky. I mean, it's par for the course for 1980s, but yeah, it's one of the examples of the ways that just like casual homophobia and transphobia were just played for laughs. Yeah. And just to be embarrassing and shocking and not actually have any kind of sympathy or empathy for the experiences of gay folks or trans folks.
SPEAKER_01:And to have it be like the punchline being like no one's actually getting a sex change operation. Oh yeah. Be like the joke. And I well, that's just kind of weird.
SPEAKER_00:It's just it's so again, par for the course, for the time. Yeah, I mean, like the word that keeps coming to mind is childish, but this whole film is childish. Yeah. Like that's kind of what's funny.
SPEAKER_01:And it's the like I'm trying to think what someone would say like these days, like if this movie were made today. The society note would just be different. I hope. Yeah. Yeah. So I do want to say the physical comedy is really impressive. Especially Terry Kaiser and then his stunt uh doubles. I don't know how they did what they did. And then when the three leads were working, like Terry Kaiser, Jonathan Silverman, and Andrew McCarthy were like working together to do like the trying to run together and stuff like that. It's like dancing. It's like ballet. Probably involved a lot of choreography and rehearsal.
SPEAKER_00:Did you find yourself laughing? I did.
SPEAKER_01:I did. It was so weird because, like, why am I laughing at this? Like, notably, Roger Ebert hated this film. He gave it one star. And he, yeah, he said basically it's a one-joke film, and it tried to, it made the mistake of thinking it could make an entire film out of it. And he's not wrong. But for some reason, like part of it is like But for some reason the joke was funny over and over again.
SPEAKER_00:With the different physical sorts of things.
SPEAKER_01:And I think it's because of how good the physical comedy was, even though it is biologically wrong.
SPEAKER_00:Doesn't rigor mortis set in eventually? I mean, that's because that's what how she's able to have sex with him, right? Theoretically.
SPEAKER_01:That's actually the only part that he found funny because we it's not seen. Uh it's the only part that Roger Ebert found funny. And it is kind of funny because Andrew McCarthy and Jonathan Silverman are like, she's been up there for a long time. And then McCarthy's like, man, it gets laid more as a dead guy than I do. And then I was like, I get yelled at if I just lay there. And he's like, and it's funny because like we don't actually see anything. And I was like, that's the part, like, I didn't I remember even as a kid not finding that funny because I find it so disturbing because there's a lack of consent there, and it's like there's some really disturbing. And there's some the conversation between McCarthy and Silverman, it there's some funny moments in there that I laughed. But the what's going on between Tina and Bernie is not funny to me at all. Like I do not find that funny. I find it really awful. Yeah, I agree. But like the the physical comedy with the dead body that's not actually a dead body, when I'm not like focused on the like, that's not how dead bodies work, I couldn't help but chuckle on multiple occasions, just because, like, that's actually why I went down the rabbit hole of Terry Kaiser's career, is because I was just like, is he a dancer? Is he like, is does he do physical comedy? Like, what how how is it that he was so well suited for this job? Because it's so impressive how well trained he was and his ability to do this. Um and actually the grin on his face, because he was saying he felt like as an actor there was very little he could do. And so he's like, what right? Because his face has to say the same. And so, like, damn, he knocked it out of the park. So it's just and I think a less skilled physical comedian and like also the chemistry between Silverman and McCarthy as friends. I I don't think this movie would be our shaka when the one have been successful.
SPEAKER_00:I have a question. So you talked about tidy writing, and like you named the two workers, and I was like, oh, this is just my question in the moment was like, was this what's the writing purpose of this? Is it just to show us that Bernie's kind of maybe deserves to die? We never actually say that, of course, as human beings, but that's what the writers were trying to show us, so we don't mourn them too much. But then you said they come back, but and they get locked in the closet. Is there any kind of like payoff of that?
SPEAKER_01:So they're locked in the closet. Gwen has come in and is is confronting Richard's. Like you said he's dead, and I just saw you come off the beach with him. And Richard is trying to get her to leave, and Larry has gotten the body and said, No, he's dead. Look. And then Gwen is like looking at them frightened, like, oh my god, did you kill him? And Richard says, Do we look like we could kill somebody? And I think she sees that Larry's wearing Bernie's watch or something.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And Richard says, Okay, I'm sorry, do I look like I could kill somebody? And then the two guys locked in the uh pantry start banging on the door. Oh, I see, I see. Okay. So there was a payoff. There was a payoff for that. Yeah. And then also the other thing that felt very tidy was when he says Bernie's dead, and she's like, Oh, like your parents and your aunt. Like, yeah. Perfect. Right. So they set it up so that she wouldn't believe him. The writer said that was just gorgeous. I like it's just stood up and clapped. In such a ridiculous movie. But um, uh the screenwriter Robert Klain, I think his name. Yeah, Robert Klain. That that was just perfect screenwriting because there's uh like the rule of three in comedy, he did it. Because like the my aunt is very ill is like such a weird thing. And then he even says, like, I don't even have an aunt. Such a non sequitur. Yeah. And so similarly, like with the two maintenance people, just that payoff is they did a lot of work to set it up, but then it it wasn't satisfying pay. And it's uh the the economy of it too, because it shows us who Bernie, those people show us who Bernie is, and they are also important to the climax of the film.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Cool. Any final insights that you want to share before I try and reflect back the the takeaways I heard?
SPEAKER_01:I did have like just a moment or two thinking about it's clear that Silverman's Richard, it's not said, but it's clear to me that he's Jewish. He's played by Jonathan Silverman. He takes her to Jaime's Hunan. As they're leaving, they're passing by a number of Hasidic Jews that dressed, it's clear that he lives in the Jewish neighborhood. And so it got me thinking about because there are very clear rules about death and how quickly one must Jewish death culture culture. And so, and that was part of it too. I was just like, Richard, your Bobby would be so disappointed in you. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So listener's Jewish custom is to to get the body in the ground within three days.
SPEAKER_01:And like, granted, the from the time they they discover Bernie's body to the end of the film is like a period of about 24 hours. So I mean, it's not that long.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but there's a certain deference that that corpses are meant to give. In part because, I mean, it comes from a sense of uncleanness from corpses, like from the olden days, but remains as a cultural touchstone that we try to bury them quick. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. That's funny. All right. So let me see if I can reflect back to you some of the key takeaways from this film, which listeners, when we first got on to record, Emily was like, There's nothing there. Which here we are at the end of the episode. There was something there, but maybe not as much as we usually find when we go back. So does not pass Bechtdel test, though there are two named female characters, they never talk to one another. So that's first. I think my biggest takeaway, actually, I think, is the power of physical slapstick humor and the skill needed to pull it off. Like you said repeatedly about the skill of the physical comedy of the three leads. So Bernie, Richard, and Larry, those are the characters' names, to try and pull it off so that we believe that Bernie is dead, or at least are willing to suspend our disbelief because it's funny, even though the body doesn't behave the way a corpse actually would. So that I think was the biggest thing. I asked if there was any meditations about mortality, and it turns out there aren't. Even though one of the main one of the three main characters is dead through most of the film. So that's kind of interesting. But what there was, what there is a little bit of a sort of contemplation and small critique of sort of overly status-driven, like money-driven living, where one is the life of the party because they're hosting the party, but actually can be completely absent and no one notices. And the ways in which the two young characters, Richard and Larry, are like, that guy's got it all. But Bernie pays the ultimate price for having it all. And so we're shown sort of how quickly having it all, and putting quotes around that, can be taken away. We also talked about sort of the homophobia and transphobia that are just like the entire nature of the fake suicide note that was intended to humiliate and sort of shock and then be in the interest of these two men's loved ones to cover up, which is with today's eyes, pretty gross, but went mostly without comment from the larger culture, I expect, in 1989.
SPEAKER_01:There's one thing I forgot to mention during the first party, there are two people arguing, a woman saying, Like, I thought you my book was going to be in the New York Times book review. And Larry, and he's like, Well, there's the person she's arguing with, like, people just aren't interested. And Larry asks, What's the book about? And she says, I argue that Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson were secretly married. You must have loved that. So the John Locke Shippers. It's very old. The John Locke Ship is very old.
SPEAKER_00:The book review writer is wrong. People would very interesting. That was the other thing I look like in Dr.
SPEAKER_02:Watson being married.
SPEAKER_00:That's hilarious. Okay. Sorry, folks, that'll be another episode. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Just thinking about the You noted the sort of Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You noted sort of the slippery nature of morality here and the way that Richard sort of wants to be seen as someone who is moral but has very little integrity, because as soon as like there's a reason not to that he finds compelling, in this case, it turns it's Gwen, then he changes his tune. And that's not just about morality for Richard, it's actually about kind of everything, like just the way he shows up, which is sort of gross. We both noted that though Gwen may get the more desirable of the two leads, like being alone might have been a better option for her. Let me see. You noted how tidy the writing is for this movie, even though it's this movie that has very little depth to it, but that it's it's neatly written with the rules of three, so that he says, My aunt is very ill. He lies and says his parents are dead, he says his aunt died, and then so that when he says Bernie is dead, Gwen is like, oh, right, like the other people. So that's really neat. And then we also spent some time talking about these two maintenance workers who actually, for being sort of throwaway characters, move the character development and the story along, which is also nice writing. You named a little bit of a send-up of 1980s like yuppie culture, like chasing affluence that I spoke to, but I want to name explicitly that you were naming that as like a cultural phenomenon. It wasn't just affluence in general, but sort of a little bit of cultural commentary on what was happening in America in the 1980s. I think that's everything that we talked about. Yeah. Did I miss anything? No, I think that's I think that's everything.
SPEAKER_01:Just the ickiness of the scene with Tina and Oh, well, there's icky there's ickiness for both of these women.
SPEAKER_00:Just really unpleasant to think about Tina having sex with this corpse. It's also like we see Gwen subjected to some very unpleasant come-ons that advance the story but also feel a little gratuitous. So yeah. Okay. Oh, and then the last thing was you named that Richard is Jewish coded. And so that adds like a layer of interesting sort of background pressure on his being so flippant with a corpse. All right. It's you again next week because of Halloween. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I am going to be bringing you my deep thoughts on Scream, which was the movie that made me love horror. Cool.
SPEAKER_00:And it is one horror movie I actually have. Oh, I didn't know you had seen it. I'll look forward to hearing your deep thoughts. Yeah, I've seen it. All right. See you then. This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make it free to produce. If you enjoy it even half as much as we do, please consider helping to keep us overthinking. You can support us at our Patreon. There's a link in the show notes. Or leave a positive review so others can find us. And of course, share the show with your people. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod from Incompotech.com. Find full music credits in the show notes. Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode. Until next time, remember, pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?