Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast

Speed: Deep Thoughts About Dennis Hopper Chewing Scenery, Keanu Reeves Shooting Hostages, and Why Pop Culture Needs More Insurance Agents

• Tracie Guy-Decker & Emily Guy Birken • Episode 106

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As Emily tells Tracie this week, the 1994 film Speed is, in a word, BONKERS. This pop culture icon of the early 1990s not only gave us the impossible bus jump that we've always wanted from the movies and catapulted Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves to mega-stardom, but it also offered a pretty darn good romance plot in among the explosions, high-speed chases, baby carriages full of cans, and shockingly high body count. But as Emily found on this rewatch, this film is also surprisingly all about money--and that's not just because Emily thinks about money for most of the week in her day job.

Just consider how Dennis Hopper's villainous Howard Payne asks for a paltry $3 million (which he then ups to a baffling $3.7 million). Any actuary worth their salt would have considered the ransom chump change compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of destruction wreaked upon Los Angeles over the course of a single day. But perhaps money isn't everything...Yeah, right.

Take a listen...just remember to keep your speed below 50 mph!

This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.

Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

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We're having a party, please come! A Zoom happy hour, Tue, 11/18, 7:30 ET / 6:30 CT. (THERE WILL BE PRESENTS!) So get ready to pour your favorite beverage, overthink some Thanksgiving-themed pop culture, laugh, and feel a little bit smarter.

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We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.

We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com. For our work together, visit guygirlsmedia.com

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SPEAKER_01:

The bomber refers to Annie, the driver, who tells Jack, she's like, I should let you know I am taking the bus because my driver's license has been suspended. He's like, Oh, for what? And she goes, speeding.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it's worth talking and thinking about. And so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit. Because pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I'll be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1994 film Speed with my sister, Tracy Guy Decker, and with you. Let's dive in. Okay, Tracy, I don't even know if you've seen this film. I have not.

SPEAKER_00:

Seriously? But it was the year that I graduated from high school and started college. Okay. So like there's a lot in the zeitgeist, but I think that's why I didn't see it. I just was like busy being a freshman in college. Oh, I get it. So I have not seen it. But what's in my head about the movie Speed is there's a bus, and if it goes slower than fast, 60 miles an hour, if it goes slower than fast, then it will blow up and there's like some ransom demand. I think Sandra Bullock is in it. Maybe oh, Keanu Reeves is in it. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my goodness. Oh this movie is bonkers. It's bonkers. Yeah, why are why are we talking about this bonkers movie today? What's at stake? So it's funny because originally I had planned to talk about Twister, and I realized I was like, I don't really want to talk about Twister. I'd rather, and something had reminded me of this movie. I was like, let me talk about Speed instead. And then funnily enough, our last episode, you'll recall Aaron Reynolds, mentioned Graham Yost, who wrote Speed. And I was just like, oh, that's so funny because I'm gonna be talking about it. Well, I come to find out Jan DeBont was the director of both Speed and Twister. So I'm on some kind of roll. That's weird. Like the universe is sending you vibes. Well, I think uh I I'm in that kind of like action adventure like zone. I don't know. Sure. So, but I was just I was more in the mood for this sort of thing. I think part of it also is that I was in the mood for Keanu. I mean, what in the so and it has been a while since I saw it last. I can remember, I did not see it when it first came out. It must have been, I had forgotten that that was that you would have been in college by then, but I can remember sitting in our dad's bedroom watching it by myself, like biting my nails. That's funny. And like my little heart going pitter pat for the Keanu Reeve of Sunderbullock, like like little little love story.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that like his house on Olmstead? Yeah.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And then like as soon as it was over, like being like, is there time to like rewind it? Because this is back in the Blockbuster VHS days. Is there time to rewind it and watch it again? So I loved it. And but I haven't seen it in years, haven't really thought about it, other than the like the 50 miles an hour. If you go over 50 miles an hour, it arms the bomb. And if you go under 50 miles an hour, the bomb goes off. That aspect of it. And even as a teenager, being like, this is bonkers, like knowing it was bonkers and loving it anyway. So rewatching it now, over 30 years since it came out, was an interesting experience. It was, and especially now that I have I'm 15 years into a career writing about money, this movie's all about money.

SPEAKER_00:

And like, it's not just me. Wait, is it's not real like is it that you're a hammer so everything's a deal, or is it really all about money? It's really all about money.

SPEAKER_02:

It's not just me.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, okay. And let me tell you why. No. So there's uh now, there is some of it being that I'm a hammer, but just for something that because I know that they put thought into every single thing that went on that bus, you know how buses have like the advertisements all along the sides. On the back of the bus, there's an advertisement that says money isn't everything. And then in parentheses, it says, no, really. So somebody really wanted that message in the movie, and it's hammered home multiple times. Stop. Hammer time. So I'm gonna I I wanna talk about that, about like the weird money in this film, in this like explosion and smoochie film. It's explosions and like chewing your nails and like two very driving fasting fast and two smoochie smooching and blowing blowing things up, two very beautiful people being very beautiful in intense situations, like weird, funny moments, Dennis Hopper chewing the scenery, he's the bad guy, and just like just he is having a ball. Like that's one of my favorite things, is when the actor playing the villain is like clearly having the time of their life. Right. Right. So there's it's just it's fun. So there's all that in there. There's my my idea of romance is in there somewhat because there's a moment that I can remember mom talking to me about where he is on this like little, I don't know what you'd call it, but those little things that you go under a car on when you're changing the oil. Oh, sure. That they do while they're going 50 miles an hour. Like, so he can try to disable the bomb. And so he's going underneath of it and they're like, what is he doing? What's going on? Because they're freaking out because they're circling the airport at this point. They've gotten to a relatively safe place where they can do that. So he can try to disarm the bomb. And as he's going underneath of it, he looks up and they look in each other's eyes. And like, it's so like I remember like my heart going pitter pat at the time. And yet, as I'm watching him approach, you can see, like, from his point of view, the bus, he cannot see her eyes.

SPEAKER_02:

She cannot see his eyes.

SPEAKER_03:

And you and mom talked about this.

SPEAKER_02:

At the time, we didn't talk about the fact that they could not actually see each other. We just talked about like, oh, oh, oh. No, no, no. At the time we were just like, oh, those romance down eyes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So, and then there's there's also this, I think this film is one of the ones that kind of set the tone because Dennis Hopper's villain character talks about Keanu Reese's Jack Travan as not being very intelligent. And I think, and the thing is, he is very smart. He outsmarts Dennis Hopper over and over and over and over again. It's just that Dennis Hopper made plans ahead of time, and it's hard like outsmarting someone who has already planned ahead is harder to do, but he does it. And so that's one of the things that I think is really interesting as well. And part of it has to do with like the way that Keanu Reeves acts, which I don't think is bad. It's just the way that he his affect and the way that he acts, which I think is again, it's not bad, it's just different. And yet, and so people like glommed onto it as like he's a dummy, which is not even remotely true. It wasn't just this movie.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh no. Because he had the same sort of thing in Matrix. Yes, right. Although I guess this predates Matrix is the date on Matrix.

SPEAKER_01:

99. So, I mean, and it it I think it comes from Bill and Ted.

SPEAKER_00:

And so it kind of built up becomes sort of a typecast that follows him, even though the cat like Ted is very, I imagine, is a very different character than Jack, is a very different character than Neo. But that sort of like slightly dim kind of follows the actor. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

Those are some of the things, like just what we're gonna be talking about. Cool as we go.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, fill in the details, because since all I got is if you go slower than fast, it blows up. And these two beautiful people are in it. Like, like why? Why if it goes slower than fast, it blows up?

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm gonna it's bonkers, so I'm gonna try to quickly, speedily, one might say. Godspeed. Go through what happens. So we start in a it takes place in Los Angeles. We start in a uh very tall office building, 42nd floor, I believe, where there is a 13 people get into an elevator. It is an express elevator that just goes from that 42nd floor down to the first floor, I believe. So there are no like no doors in between on the floors in between. And the bomber, who we later find out, his name is Howard Payne. I'm just gonna refer to him as Dennis Hopper because it's easier for me, because we don't find out his name until like the very end of the movie. But Dennis Hopper, at the very he has bombs that cut the cables, and all elevators have brakes. So it cuts the cables, the brakes like engage, and so the elevator stops somewhere around 30 or 31. But there are bombs attached to the brakes. And so the bomber has said he wants$3 million or he's gonna blow the brakes. So LAPD shows up, including Jack Travan and his partner, Harry Temple, who is played by Jeff Daniels. Sorry, and Jack Travan is Keanu Reeves. Jack Travan is Keanu Reeves with his hair buzzed very short and looking hot. Oh my God. So we see that the bomber is in another elevator and he is listening. And so he is nearby and he's got things, all kinds of stuff set up, including like detonators. And so Harry and well, Jack volunteers himself and Harry to go check out the bomb because Harry is the bomb expert. And so they go and they take a look at it, and they have been told that if they try to get the passengers out, he'll I for some reason they are not supposed to try to get the passengers out. And they have 23 minutes until the time is up. So Jack is convinced that there is some way around the issue they're in. He's like, How much do you think this elevator weighs? He goes up, he finds there is some sort of crane on the roof, and he gets a hook to that crane and like hooks it to the elevator and starts getting the passengers out through an access panel on one of the doors, or excuse me, one of the floors. So there's no doors, but there's an access panel, and they can get the people out, thinking that there's no way the guy would know about it. But he, because he can hear them, he blows the um brake early, but they still manage to rescue all 13 passengers. They get into a confrontation with Dennis Hopper. Now, during the time they'd been working, at one point, Harry and Jack are just like back and forth, like pop quiz, hot shots. And so Harry asks Jack, like, You're at the airport, bomber has a hostage, is trying to get to a plane, you're 100 feet away. What do you do? And Jack says, You shoot the hostage, take the hostage out of the equation. And holy shit. And Harry's like, You're sick, man. And so it gets to a point where the bomber has Harry and is holding him, has uh a bomb and is like trying to get away. And Harry says to Jack, shoot the hostage, because they just had that conversation. So Jack shoots Harry in the leg, which means that the bomber no longer has leverage. And so he runs away and like there's an explosion, which they believe means he he died in his own explosion. Uh-huh. So Jack and Harry receive medals, and uh Harry is like grumbling, like, I can't believe you shot me. He's like, You told me to. Then we see that the bomber is watching them get these medals. Also, the bomber is missing his thumb on his left hand. The next morning, Jack is getting coffee and he says hi to a bus driver, pulls up, gets coffee right behind Jack. They apparently see each other daily. Bus driver gets into his bus, pulls away, bus explodes. Jack runs after it, and like it's clearly there's nothing to do with it. Too late, nothing to be. Yeah. And the bus was empty because he was it was before he had starting his route. There's a phone ringing, like a payphone for those of us who were not born yet in 1994.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. A payphone was kind of like a cell phone, except it stayed in one place and it only stayed in that one place, and you had to put coins in it in order to make a call. But other people could call it because it had a number. Okay. Sorry. That was a little aside for our Gen Z listen.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's the bomber calling Jack, saying, pop quiz hot shot. There's a bomb on a bus. If it goes over 50 miles per hour, the bomb engages. If it goes under 50 miles an hour, the bomb explodes. And what do you do? And he's like, Well, I'd want to know which bus. He's like, All right, there's some rules. I'll tell you which bus it is, and I'll tell you where it is, but no passengers may leave the bus or I'll explode it. So that starts a race to try to get to the bus. We then see the bus, and it is like to the film's credit, they have a very diverse cast of extras on this bus. I mean, it is a lot of it's Los Angeles. It's also like, in some ways, it's also just like it's a very diverse cast of extras.

SPEAKER_03:

It's like somebody was like with a check. Yeah. Like, where's the Asian guy? Asian guy. Okay, Asian guy. All right, all right, wait, we need a disabled person. Who's got a cane? Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. So when we first see the bus, it is we see Sandra Bullock, her character's name is Annie, like running to catch it, going, like, please, and she is Sam the bus driver, finally like takes pity on her and opens the door. He's like, you know, this isn't a bus stop. She's like, Oh, you're a good and kind man. They'll write songs about you one day, Sam. And so we get to meet some of the people on the bus. So Sam the bus driver, she sits down and there is a tourist played by Alan Ruck, who is Cameron in Ferris Bueller, who is kind of like hitting on her slash talking your ear off. And so she likes moves seats, sits next to another woman named Helen, played by Beth Grant, passes Beckdell because they talk about taking the bus. And so it turns out Annie, she misses her car. Her license has been suspended. There are, and then just everyone's commuting. It is eight o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_00:

Do we have like a ransom or something from Alan from um Dennis Hopper? Or is it just is he just a psychologist?

SPEAKER_01:

He wants$3.7 million. He had wanted$3 million the first time. It's been like probably about a month, and now he wants$3.7 million.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And what's that in today's dollar?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, I looked it up and it's about like$1.81 million dollars. And that that is one of the things I'm gonna get to. It's like I'm not saying that's not a lot of money, because that's a lot of money and it would be a w life-changing amount of money for a lot of people. But especially in Los Angeles, that's not that much money.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so he's saying, give me this three million, 3.7 or but he also is giving them the opportunity like okay, all right, carry on.

SPEAKER_01:

And at this point he's made it clear like it's because Jack pissed him off.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right. That's well, that's why I asked, because it doesn't sound like it's actually like to get something, except to like get back at Jack.

SPEAKER_01:

So the bus is still in the local routes at first, and so has not gone over 50 miles an hour yet. So the but the bomb has not yet been active. So Jack is driving after it, like driving like a maniac, manages to catch up with the bus in traffic and like runs after it and is like banging on the door, manages to like smash the glass a little bit and scares the crap out of everyone. He is in plain clothes, so like they don't and like he's not able to like show his badge. So they're just like, No, we're not letting you on this bus. And so, and then by the time like traffic picks up again, he's far enough away from his own car that he can't go back. So he commandeers this guy's Jaguar.

SPEAKER_02:

Of course, it's a Jaguar. They never commandeer like the Toyota Camry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's a convertible too.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, of course you didn't even have to tell me that.

SPEAKER_01:

I already knew. So, and the guy's like, so at the what it's kind of a funny line because he he said he's like, LAPD, take this car. And the guy's like, it's my car because there's a black guy driving. It's my car. I didn't steal it. It's or it's my car, it's not stolen. And uh, and so then he takes Jack takes out his gun, he's like, now it is, move over. That's actually really funny. So he's racing after it, and at this point, the bus does get over 50 miles an hour. He's able to get there, like get there the bus driver's attention and show his badge, but they can't understand each other because trying to talk over traffic. So he has the the guy whose Jaguar it is write bomb on bus and like he's trying to hold it up, like he gets in front of the bus, trying to hold it up, and it ends up like flying against the windshield. And like poor Sam gets freaked out and starts to slow down. He's like, Don't slow down. And then at that point, he's like, All right, I need to get on that bus. And he asks, and this again, I wouldn't bring this up except that I'm gonna talk about it later. He asks the Jaguar owner, Are you insured? He's like, Yeah, man, yeah, I'm insured. He's like, All right, and so he opens the door and like pulls ahead and then stops. So the door comes off. So like is is is pulled as like by the bus. Like the bus rips the door off rips the door off so that he can then like jump from the Jaguar onto the bus. Okay, and so and then the Jaguar owner, he's like, Here, take the wheel, the Jaguar. Oh, and he the Jaguar owner has a cell phone, which was not that common necessarily in 1994. And he's like, I'm taking this. And at that point, the Jaguar owner's like, fine, take the phone. That guy, that guy's great. I love him. So anyway, he gets on the bus. There is a guy on the bus looking very sweaty and uncomfortable. He's not explaining what's happening. He tells the bus driver, but he's not explaining to everyone else what's happening because he's trying to avoid panic. But the guy, the sweaty and uncomfortable guy gets up and like holds a holds a gun on Jack. And Jack pulls up his gun and he's like, I'm not here for you. We're just two cool guys. I'm putting my gun away, I'm putting my badge away. I'm just Jack right now. Like, please put that away. And another passenger trying to help, like, tackles the sweaty guy, and it means he uh accidentally pulls the trigger and ends up shooting the bus driver. Oh no. So poor Sam. So Annie ends up taking over driving. Who's lost her license? Who's lost her license, and they're able to like stabilize Sam, and then at that point, Jack says and Jack handcuffs the shooter and he says, I'm really not here for you. There's a bomb on the bus. I was trying to avoid freaking y'all out, but that's what's going on. So shenanigans ensue. I'm not sure. So he at that point he is able to he gets in touch with his lieutenant Mac.

SPEAKER_03:

On the cell phone he stole from the Jaguars.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And with Harry. And so Harry has him look under the bus. There's an access panel. The Sam tells him, like, there's an access panel, he can stick his hand head underneath to look. And he sees there's a a bomb that is wired through a like tacky gold watch, like the kind you get when you retire.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01:

And so Harry's working on trying to figure out like how to disable the bomb and like why, like, who could have done this while the police are trying to figure out a safe place for them to go because they end up having to get off the freeway because it's crowded, and so they have to slow down. So they get into city streets, and that's terrifying. Right. Going 50. Uh-huh. And so they're able to get onto the 105, which is under which is completed, had been under construction and is completed but not yet open. So they get to that, and then they have conversations with the bomber who calls. Like they give the bomber the cell phone number of the Jaguar owner. The bomber refers to Annie, the driver, who tells Jack, she's like, I should let you know I am taking the bus because my driver's license has been suspended. He's like, Oh, for what? And she goes, speeding. All right. So wait, Dennis Hopper refers to Annie as uh the wild cat behind the wheel.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So they have like this um flatbed truck on the empty highway next to the bus. And so Jack convinces the bomber to let Sam go so that he can get because he's injured. Because he's injured. Uh-huh. There are news helicopters following overhead.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh-huh. A la OJ sent me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And Helen is like freaking out. She's like, Well, can't we all get off? And Jack is saying, No, we can't do that. And Mac and the other police on the flatbed are like, No, no, no, let's let's unload the rest of the passengers. And Jack's like, No, I don't know how he knows, but like, we've got eyes above us. I don't like he knows. And so once they've passed Sam over, Helen kind of reaches out, and the other police officers are like, Yeah, yeah, reach over. And as soon as uh the bomber sees it, he blows a smaller detonator on the steps of the bus and she falls and falls under the wheels of the bus.

SPEAKER_03:

And oh, gruesome.

SPEAKER_01:

So Annie is really freaked out about it for any reason. The next shenanigan is that although the 105 is supposed to be completed, there is a gap. There's a 50-foot gap where there is Oh, did they jump a bus? They jumped a bus.

unknown:

Neat.

SPEAKER_01:

So they gotta jump that, which as a what was I, a 15-year-old, I'm watching that going like that is not physically possible. Nope, nope, nope, nope in a cartoon. Don't believe it. Anyway, they they get to a point where because Jack is certain that he's watching the news, he once they get to the other side of that gap, they're near the LAX. And so he's like, Here, get off and go to the LAX. So they can continue riding around the runways relatively safely in the airport, and it's restricted airspace. So they can't have news teams following them there. At that point, he talks to the bomber again, says, I need to get off so I can negotiate to get you your money. And reluctantly, Dennis Hopper agrees. That's when he goes under the bus to try to disarm the bomb.

SPEAKER_00:

On that little dolly thing. Which I don't think those wheels actually could spin that fast. Those little skateboard wheels that are on dollies. Yeah, anyway. Okay. So and they happen to have one of those on the bus.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, no, no. It's like the police are there with everything. Oh, oh. Like, yeah, the police have come, like they, they are they provide the dolly in a truck ahead of them. Got it. That has a and it's attached to a like a flywheel with a long cord to it. And I mean, they they've got a setup. All right, all right. I mean, if you're gonna militarize the police, at least you've got something to protect Keanu Reeves.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Okay. All right, all right. The the case for militized pre militarized pre police is Keanu Reeves' safety. Yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_01:

So it doesn't go well because with all the shenanigans, the bus's tires are starting to come apart.

SPEAKER_00:

Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_01:

So they just barely managed to get Keanu back, or excuse me, Jack back onto the bus because the whole Dolly situation falls apart. And he had to use a screwdriver in the gas tank to hold on. So now they're also losing gas.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, so now they're leaking gas. Cool. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. Meanwhile, Harry has figured out that considering how well the bomber understands bombs, and he doesn't use the same one because the MO with bombers is they find one that works for them, they've and they're monogamous. That's what they use. But he uses all different kinds all over the place, and it's like he knows it all. And he's like, he always knows what we're doing. And he's like, What if he's a cop? And so he's like, Look into pension records. I want someone who is on disability because he's missing a thumb. And so they finally find him. He was forced into retirement in 1989, and they now know his name. And he's like, We've got our scumbag, and they are going to his house, which as soon as they get there, it has been rigged to explode, and everybody, the entire team is caught in this explosion, including Harry. Oh, Harry dies. Oh. So plot armor doesn't protect Harry? Plot armor does not protect Harry.

SPEAKER_04:

Sad.

SPEAKER_01:

So Jack gets a call thinking it's from Harry, and it is because this is back when cell phones didn't tell you who was calling. Can you imagine? And it's the bomber saying, sorry he didn't make it. And he refers to Annie as that wildcat again. Jack starts freaking out because his best friend just died. And once he calms down, he notices that Annie's sweatshirt has University of Arizona logo on it. And he's like, They're the wildcats. And he's like, he can see us. And he looks around and he finds a video camera that's right up at the top. So they ask the local news, they find the transmission. There's local news nearby. They ask them to find that, create a loop, and send it. So, and then once they have that going, they get the passengers off and then let the bus explode. Once they're safe, they get a call from the bomber saying, like, where's my money? And Mac, the the lieutenant, is like, I'm gonna tell him where his money is. And he's just like, he doesn't know the bus has exploded. And they're like, Oh yeah. So they think, okay, now we can get him. So they go to make the drop. It's in a trash can, and they have like the entire place surrounded. Annie goes with them. She's in an ambulance because she and she and Jack are all lovey-dovey at this point. But she's safely in the ambulance, but she gets out just for a little fresh air. And the bomber dressed as a cop comes and says, Oh, it's not safe for you here, miss. And she's like, Oh, Jack Travan said it was okay. He's like, Oh, yeah, he sent me. He wants to make sure you're safe. As they're watching, and it's he's late for the pickup. Jack is like, something's wrong. He goes, he pushes over the trash can, finds a hole in it, a hole in the floor, and it goes down into the subway, and he fall goes down, down, lowers himself below, and the bomber has put a bomb on Annie, had her pick up the money, and he's using her as the hostage now. And he's like, You're not gonna shoot this hostage, are ya? They end up on a subway going way too fast with Annie because they're in the subway. Strapped to a bomb. Okay. And so Jack is following, has to the everyone else. There's no one else on the subway except for the driver who the bomber kills. Jack is on top of the subway, and the bomber hears him, climbs up on there as well. They tussle, and Jack manages to kill him by pushing him up so that his head is cut off by one of those lights that are low. Like, yeah, it's pretty awful.

SPEAKER_00:

That's gruesome.

SPEAKER_01:

He comes back down, and when the bomber had killed the driver, he had like messed up all the mechanics of the subway. And so they can't stop it. And the tunnel is unfinished.

SPEAKER_00:

Of course it is.

SPEAKER_01:

Annie is handcuffed to a pole, and so like they'd have to jump, and there's no the he she can't. And so um Jack says, like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna speed it up so that we jump off the tracks and maybe we'll survive that way. And so that's what he does. And like they hug each other and like they jump off the tracks and end up on Hollywood Boulevard and like are okay and smooch. Doesn't she have a bomb on her stuff? Oh, he got the stick that controls the bomb, and that it was easy to like because he just wanted to be able to put it on her quickly, he could unhook it and bombs neutralized. All right. So the bomb has been neutral. Bombs neutralized.

SPEAKER_00:

Alright. Well, that took a that was not quick. I tried. I know. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Let's go straight into it. So I feel like we should start with money because you're a hammer and it's hammer time. So talk to me about money in this film.

SPEAKER_01:

So I remembered that Dennis Hopper wanted money. I remembered that was his reasoning for this, that he was bitter because he lost his career when he had the injury that made him lose his thumb, and that he felt like his pension was too small. And there's a point where, like, when Keanu Reeves at the beginning is like going upside down to hook the crane to the elevator. He's like, Why do I do this job again? And Harry says to him, Oh, because after 30 years, you can get a cheap gold watch and a tiny pension. So, like, we set this up that like cops don't get paid well. And then they were tired of crap. So I remembered that. But when the amount that Dennis Hopper was asking for was three million dollars, I remember going, really? Yeah. As like Austin Howard. One million dollars. I'm like, yeah, because like I'm not saying it's not a lot of money, but it's really not that much money. Yeah. So like that just really was like his cognitive dissonance for me. And 3.7 is such a specific number. Yeah, to go up to where, like, you know, go whole hog, Dennis. Say four.

SPEAKER_02:

You watch it yourself at 250.

SPEAKER_01:

So, so that that really struck me as odd. And then particularly since it's set in LA, which now LA in 2025 is like impossible to live in for a but I think even in 94, it was an expensive place to live. Like it it in our lifetime, I don't think it has ever been a place where, like, oh yeah, low cost of living, nice place to raise the kids. It's never been that. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

So that was, and he had been a police officer in Atlanta and had retired to Los Angeles. To LA. Yeah. Oh, okay. All right. So that was weird to me. Then as I'm watching the huge amount of destruction that is being wrought upon Los Angeles. Like a lot more than$3 million. It is so much more than$3 million. Starting with Bob, the uh bus driver. I don't know. I'm just assuming he probably had life insurance. And if he had some sort of like and the bus company, because like driving is a relatively high risk profession. And so you get higher life insurance payout, your family does, right, if you die on the job.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And then like accidental death and dismemberment policy. And then the cost of the bus, like just the bus itself is probably, I mean, a hundred and fifty thousand dollar bus.

SPEAKER_00:

Plus, then there's like City Street down this that needs to be prepared. So I'm like, So, like the insurance agents alone are like, just pay the money.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And so, like, when they're like, So it's 8 a.m. when all this starts, and he wants his money by 11 a.m. And Jack is like, there's no way we can do that that quickly. And I'm like, you talk to an actuary, they will be like, give the man his money, we can find it. Like, just with the amount that the bus company, that the not the bus company, but the Los Angeles, the city of Los Angeles is out for poor Bob and that bus and that city street is probably already close to three million. It's getting there. So, like, if he were asking for 50 million, that I would understand. So now obviously we wouldn't have a movie if if they just paid him. If they just paid him.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But there the film intentionally did that. Now, I think some of it is they continuously say he's crazy, not stupid. And at one point, Annie asks Jack, why is he doing it? Did we bomb his country or something? Like that. She asks, like, why is this guy did he put this bomb on this bus? And he's like, It's just for money. He just wants money. And he's like, Okay, so we pay him, he goes away. He's like, No, he gets the money and he wins. He both blows up the bus and he wins. He's like, okay, well, what if you win? Well, then we play again tomorrow, is how Jack describes it. So that is part of it as well. And that's where I'm thinking, like, why I feel like this movie is about money in a way that's that is not just me looking at it. Because it's saying that the money isn't really important. I mean, that's what's on the back of the bus. It's saying, like, money doesn't really matter. Yeah, right. Because it doesn't really matter to Dennis Hopper, but it's the entire reason he's doing this, and yet he would do the horrible things anyway. And so, like, there's this very weird conversation going on in this tension about like what really matters in here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Now, before we hit record, you named the fact that there's like attached to the money is also class because we see these two separate bombing incidents. The first one in like a Sheetoni high-rise with posh business people, and the second one, like with folks from the other side of the socioeconomic spectrum riding the bus. Can you like unpack that a little bit? Like, what's up with that?

SPEAKER_01:

So that I think is really interesting because Dennis Hopper says he spent two years planning the elevator bombing. And that, considering the fact that he had been a police officer, which is considered a blue-collar job. And when we first meet him, he is working on the elevator shaft, and there's a security guard who comes in and says, Hey, you're not supposed to be here. He's like, Oh, yeah, I got a last-minute work order. He's like, Well, I didn't see any work order, I'm gonna need to see it. And so the bomber kills this guy. Like, he's like, Oh, yeah, let me get the work order. And then he gets gets like a weapon and kills the guy, and he's like, Sorry, it's not personal. And so there is this slight sense that there is a little bit of like solidarity. I mean, not solidarity, it's like it's not personal. Like, you know, you're just in my way. And he doesn't Whereas maybe it is personal with the hostages.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Kind of, kind of. On the elevator, and and it's definitely personal with Jack. Right. Though that, you know, it's interesting coming back to sort of the money isn't everything. Like, it's personal with Jack. Like it's about the money, but it's not actually about the money. It's about showing up this dude. I mean, there's a lot simpler ways that someone with the knowledge of bombs could ask for a ransom than this like weird puzzle with the bus. Yeah. And he left clues that could allow Jack to solve it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it it's sort of about being met. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And he the other thing that I think is interesting, and I talked a little bit about before we hit record, consistently the bomber like talks about Jack as not being that intelligent. And he he says that Harry is the brains of the operation. Well, Harry's the bomb expert. But Jack is really smart. Now, some of it is he describes it as like, I've got a gut feeling. So, like when he's like, There's something not right about this with the elevator, and he's like, Let's take the hostages out of the equation. And he's like, I think he's still here. Because uh, when he sets the bomb off early, like three minutes early, they're like, Well, maybe he just got wanted to do it early. He could be anywhere setting that bomb off. And he's like, No, he'd want to monitor it from here. Like, there's this place is crawling with police. Why would he do that? And like, and Jack's like, I just have a feeling. And so, but that is a kind of intelligence, even if it's not it's not the kind of intelligence where you can show your work. Right, that sort of intuition.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And consistently he he outsmarts Dennis Hopper, which is like there is this we have typecast Keanu Reeves as like not too bright surfer dude.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. I mean, right, we said that, but even though the characters are very different from from Ted to this character to Neo, they're all different characters, but that sort of like not that sort of dimness, but it's also it's almost like Born Sexy Yesterday kind of dimness, right? Because there's like this level of um not quite smart, but also like very, very smart or good at something else in each of those three characters I just named.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's also like he's the shoot the hostage, it's actually very smart.

SPEAKER_00:

It's ruthless. Yeah, yeah. But if it is just about the game of strategy and you don't care what the consequences are or what the cost is, that is a way to win. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And it was it was like that conversation is what allowed him and Harry together to win right initially.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Before we hit record, you also said that you wanted to get a little bit meta about Keanu and his performance here. So let's stay with Keanu Reeves here and and tell me, tell our listeners what you told me before we hit record.

SPEAKER_01:

So River Phoenix passed away either during filming or just beforehand. And the director like rearranged the shooting so that Reeves could attend the funeral and to give him a little time to grieve and have like he had a less intense shooting schedule, which is lovely. It's lovely to know that that they did that for him. And apparently, Keanu Reeves was saying to DeBaunt, I'm not a hero. Like doing this action film after having lost this good friend of his felt inauthentic in a way, and he's like, I like I don't feel like a hero. And the director has said that kind of cognitive dissonance that he was experiencing brought more to the performance.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, does make a certain amount of sense for what I just which I only know from what you're telling me, but what I understand of this character, Jack, who's just a cop on the job. Like, why am I doing this again? Yeah. Right? Like, he doesn't think of himself as a hero either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And in particular, the when he learns of Harry's death, like he really he's held it together and been like, he's been what the passengers on the bus need him to be. Uh-huh. And he is just overwhelmed with like the rage kind of grief at that moment. Oh. And Annie's like, please stop, please stop. We need you to hold it together. Like, we need you to do. And you think maybe Keanu was bringing some of his actual grief around Phoenix, Phoenix's death. Yeah. And it's very real. Like it's a very real moment.

SPEAKER_00:

That's really fascinating.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And in such a like silly bonkers film. And the way she brings him back is she's like, I can't do this without you. We can't do this without you, please. And that's when he like kind of like kind of calms down, and then he like turns to her and he goes, We're all going to die. So like he like pulls it together for the rest of the passengers, but he's not able to do it. Yeah. But that's when he notices that her sweatshirt is University of Arizona. And that's when he's like, Okay, I've got something. But it's where I'm like, I resent people being like, he doesn't, he's not a good actor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. All right. In our last couple minutes, you wanted to talk about romance.

SPEAKER_01:

So there is like this really interesting like interplay between Annie and Jack. Like, just there's a little bit of like kind of flirting. Like he keeps calling her ma'am. And at some point she's like, Annie. My name's Annie. And there's there's a little bit of that. And then when she runs through that when she's on the streets valet, she runs like through an intersection, and there's a woman pushing what looks like a baby carriage, and she sh she hits it and she's like so upset. And it didn't have a baby in it. It was an old-fashioned baby carriage, and the woman had like filled it with cans, but she's like horrified. And he like calms her down. And so there's this like sense of like they're supporting each other.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh-huh. Yeah, that's nice.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's the first time everything's okay after the bus has exploded and everyone's fine. She's like, Are you gonna get all mushy on me now? And he's like, I don't know, I might. And she's like, I gotta warn you, relationships that start from an intense experience never last. I've done extensive study on this. And then once they are safe again after the subway, he's like, Well, I've heard that relationships that start based on an intense experience never last. And she's like, We're just gonna have to base this one on sex then. So, like, I mean, on the one hand, I really appreciate like the just the sex positive way that they interact and all of that. I also, when she realizes like she can't get out of the handcuffs and she's like, you need to jump off. Like the I can't get out of here, you need to save yourself. And he doesn't. And like there's there's multiple times where like they are just like when he finally gets back on after getting on the dolly, she's like so freaked out and so worried, and he gets back on and she's like hitting him. She's like, You jerk, you scared the crap out of me, and stuff like that. So, like, there's a lot of really lovely, nice little things in there so that you sort of believe. Yeah, their their chemistry is really good, but it's also like he couldn't see her eyes from where he was, and she couldn't see his.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, so it's interesting. What I'm hearing is that there are these like moments, these guideposts, and then we fill in like that's kind of how these things work. There is enough chemistry between these two characters and these two actors that the viewer like fills in the rest.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean we believe it. The director, like we director intended for us to think that they were looking at each other's.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, I know. I know, but like it it'll like what I mean is like we sort of we gloss over the bits that aren't either aren't there or wouldn't actually work. Yeah. We just gloss over it and fill in the details. That's funny. Any final words before I try and reflect back to you what I heard?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think this kind of like disaster film, which I I like, I think this is also kind of a disaster film. I don't know. I don't know if it counts.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean it's an action adventure. It's an action adventure. But it's I don't think it is a disaster because there's because it's human-made, it's not Yeah, that's true. By by a single individual, it's not like you know, it's not towering inferno.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. But there's something about like we love these, like, and I said it myself, like I love villains who are chewing the scenery. Like I love when they're enjoying themselves. Mm-hmm. But it like as I'm you're watching them like kiss at the end in the subway, I'm like, how much destruction did he wreak in one day in Los Angeles? Like, that's ridiculous. And for what? So yeah, I don't know. It's it gets to that, like my problem with like serial killer movies and like and Freddy Krueger and stuff like that, where we're like we get so enamored of the bad guy because they're so fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. All right, so let me see if I can reflect this back to you fairly quickly because we're running short on time. So you are a hammer, but also this movie is a nail because it's all about money. Although it says it's not because the back of the bus says money isn't everything. Parentheses, no, really. And I think that actually is true. It's not really about money because actually, like, there are much, much simpler ways for Dennis Hopper to use his knowledge of bomb making to r get money as ransom. Like, it's also about sort of the chase and the riddle. It's kind of like Batman and the Riddler almost, or like Bond villains who like want a nemesis. So there's something like kind of interesting about that, about the money, but not really the money. And also to throw on top of that the class piece of this, where this guy who is a working class, he's a cop who didn't get enough money. And that's kind of his motive. And so his initial target is very Tony-shy business people who maybe can't afford to pay his$3 million ransom, which really isn't that much money. But when that doesn't work, he goes after everyday folks who have less potential theoretically because they're riding the bus. And I'm not exactly sure what to do with that. Like, that's really interesting. And we we named the fact that like his number goes up, but only by$700,000. Like, why did he cheat himself the extra 300? Like, go for the four. Anyway, that's sort of an interesting thing. And you name the fact that the movie makers really wanted us to see that this bus is a slice of LA. You know, they like had the Asian guy and they had the disabled person and they had the like this woman and the black person and the white person and the whatever. Like, they really wanted us to see, like, they had a checklist of different identities in LA. So well done, we noticed. And then we see this intense romance between these two players. I'm going a little out of order of our conversation, but one of the takeaways was these two players have this sort of cute, flirty in the midst of romance, but also reciprocal. He calms her down, she calms him down. Like there's like actual reciprocal support, these guideposts and this chemistry, which allows us to kind of gloss over things that might be missing or that might just be inaccurate because he couldn't have seen her eyes and she couldn't have seen his eyes in that scene. Also, the bus would not have made that jump.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Right. And like, how would that not then like trigger the bomb? Set off the bomb.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So there's the one of the things that I heard from you, like in the subtext, is that this movie is just really fun. And, you know, it has the stakes at the right level and the action adventure at the right pacing, that you're biting your nails and not saying, that wouldn't happen. Instead, you're just like, oh good, they made it. So that's sort of an interesting note. You noted that this movie is part of the trajectory of watching Keanu Reeves play characters who are sort of come off as maybe not quite that bright in traditional intellectual ways, but also very smart or very accomplished in other ways. And that sort of follows the actor through very different characters, and this is part of that trajectory. And speaking of him as an actor, you named that this film happened right around the time that his friend River Phoenix passed away, and that that grief actually gets translated into a better performance. Because not only did Reeves not feel like he deserved to be an action hero, which was accurate to the character he was playing, he also there's a moment when the character experiences deep grief, which maybe did was informed by the actor's deep grief. I think that was everything we talked about.

SPEAKER_01:

Villains being fun, being dramatic.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And and the villains being fun sort of like kind of messes with our heads in terms of like what we should be taking away from films like this, where there's like these complicated plots and and actors kind of chewing the scenery in very fun ways where they're having a very good time. Yes, yes. Although, on the other hand, it's kind of like a safe way for us to kind of experience that. True, very true. So well, this was fun. I guess I'm gonna have to watch it at some point, maybe. Maybe I'll watch it with you.

SPEAKER_02:

Because that would be so fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And next week, I'm gonna change the pace completely and bring you my deep thoughts about a fish called Wanda. Oh been years since I saw that. So, well, same. See you then. See you then. This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make it free to produce. If you enjoy it even half as much as we do, please consider helping to keep us overthinking. You can support us at our Patreon. There's a link in the show notes, or leave a positive review so others can find us. And of course, share the show with your people. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod from Incompotech.com. Find full music credits in the show notes. Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?