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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Splash: Deep Thoughts About Mermaids, Male Masturbatory Fantasies, and How Pop Culture Created the Name Madison
All my life I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's... she's a fish.
When Tracie and Emily saw the 1984 Ron Howard film Splash as little girls, they fell in love with the badass mermaid played by Daryl Hannah. She was smart, determined, and romantic--and she had a gorgeous tail she could unfurl in Tom Hanks' bathtub. But on revisiting the movie this week, Tracie found some rather ugly and sexist assumptions bundled together with the romantic notions. Madison the mermaid learns how to be a human woman by shopping and her devotion to Allen makes very little sense. But like Disney's The Little Mermaid, it's possible to look at Splash as a trans allegory, which makes their romance and Allen's decision to join her in the sea a much more subversive story.
Sit back, relax, soak your fins, and take a listen!
Mentioned in this episode:
Why Magic Pixie Dream Girl Movies Are Uncomfortably Dark
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our family as the Guy Girls.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find.
is this a feminist movie and like spoiler alert? No, but also there are moments that I think one could argue are, and so it's one of those, like give with one hand and take with the other. Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just pop culture, what others might deem stupid shit? You know matters, you know what's worth talking and thinking about, and so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit. I'm Tracy Guy-Decker and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't? You know what's in your head? On today's episode, I'll be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1980s Ron Howard film Splash with my sister, emily Guy-Burken, and with you. Let's dive in. All right, em, I know you remember this film because we've talked about it a little bit, but tell me what's in your head. What mental furniture do you have about Splash?
Speaker 2:So I know that Splash is the reason why there are like three Madisons in my kid's class. That name was not a name for a girl prior to, you know, 1984, 85, misses her mermaid self and so she puts Morton's salt in a bath so she can have her tail, and that image really stuck with me. I remember her buying a huge fountain and putting it in his apartment and then, other than that, the thing that stuck with me from when I saw it for the very first time was John Candy's character would drop coins on the ground so that he could look up women's skirts, and I was so horrified by that. And the movie does not comment on it. So I kind of remember bits and pieces of the plot. Just, you know, daryl Hannah's a mermaid. She rescued Tom Hanks' character when he was a child, I think, when he almost drowned, and she comes back again now that he's an adult and yeah, that's that. Oh, and Eugene Levy is like a cryptid researcher or something like that, or for the government he's trying to prove that she's a mermaid.
Speaker 1:So you remember a lot about this movie, like you remember a lot more about this movie than I did when I went in to watch it. Really, okay, yeah, I'm impressed. So yeah, all of those things are right on. So what I want to talk about with you today are sort of the relationship between Daryl Hannah's Madison and Tom Hanks's Alan and sort of why, like what's in it for her, like that's very unclear, and sort of like what that taught us about romance taught us about romance.
Speaker 1:I also want to talk about some of the tropes that are employed. So she is very much a born sexy yesterday, also a bit of a manic pixie dream girl. I want to think about this in conversation a little bit with the Little Mermaid, which came about a decade later, because they're both loosely based on the Hans Christian Andersen and they made different choices, and so I want to talk about some of those. And they made different choices, and so I want to talk about some of those. I also want to talk about sort of consumerism in this film and consumerism as a gendered kind of phenomenon.
Speaker 2:Women be shopping, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And also I want to sort of ask the question like is this a feminist movie? And like, spoiler alert no, but also there are moments that I think one could argue are, and so it's one of those like give with one hand and take with the other. So these are the buckets that I'm going to get into and, actually, before we hit record, you mentioned a potential interpretation that is fascinating to me that I want you to share. So, before we get into all of that, let me see if I can do a plot synopsis. I'm not even going to say it, I'm just going to do my best.
Speaker 1:I'm not even going to say it's going to be brief because we all know it ain't. We'll do what we can, so I'll do my best. I will do my best. So the movie starts actually in black and white, like 20 years ago. We're on cape cod, we're on this ferry and we meet this family. So there's teddy, who is an older brother. He's a little bit chubby and, like the movie makes sure we see that he is chubby and he's. We see him dropping coins on the ground so he can look up women's skirts and then as a child, as.
Speaker 1:Ugh, that's how we meet him. And then his mom is like stop that, stop that. And then says to the dad like talk to him. And so the dad like smacks him on the top of the head and she says, listen to your father. Which actually is kind of funny.
Speaker 2:Listen to the smack on the top of your head Exactly.
Speaker 1:So we know where they're in Cape Cod, they're in the waters of Cape Cod and the younger brother, alan, is sort of like dreamy and looking wistfully into the distance and he doesn't want to go. Look at Cape Cod from the boat. The way that with the rest of the family and the mom is kind of like well, if you change your mind you know where we'll be. And then inexplicably Alan is looking out at the water and jumps and he sort of starts to sink and he's meant to be about eight-ish, so, like Teddy's, like 10-ish. So he starts to sink and then a blonde girl his age kind of smiles at him and they're like holding hands and smiling at one another under the water. Meanwhile the adults like man overboard and they like pull him out and he's still gazing wistfully at the water. The boat kind of moves on and this girl pokes her head up out of the water and like is tearfully looking at the boat going away and then she dives and we see the fin. So it was a mer girl.
Speaker 1:Fast forward to present day. We meet alan. He runs a fruit wholesaler, so we see him like on the docks with fruit and like arguing with different workers, like the delivery guy and a customer who owns a grocery store. Teddy pulls up played by John Candy in the sports car and he like knocks over a sack of fruit and we learn that he was playing poker and like made a deal for this crappy cherries that are rotting and we sort of see that the dynamic of the like irresponsible older brother and the was going to say more responsible and he is, but that's. We didn't see that as a child, we just saw that he was kind of dreamy. Through the course of this we learned that he's going to a wedding over the weekend from one of his he Allen.
Speaker 1:He Allen. Thanks Tom Hanks is. Allen is going to a wedding over the weekend. From one of his employees, no-transcript asking him where she is, where veronica is, and he gets increasingly short with them until one guy doesn't even ask and he's just like she's not coming.
Speaker 2:All right, she left me, all right and I imagine that, like with tom hanks, because he's so charming, yeah, and kind of adorable.
Speaker 1:He is, although it's funny because this character is not in that same way. But you know. So John Candy's Teddy is like you might want to apologize, that was the bride's brother. So anyway, they end up in a bar after and Alan gets increasingly drunk. Teddy like meets two women and is trying to like set up a thing where they would. The four of them would go out, and Alan just doesn't want to. And so he goes out to and he catches a cab and he says to the cabbie I want to go to Cape Cod. They're in New York City. And the cabbie's like that's 300 miles, you got the cash. And he pulls out a wad of cash. So the cabbie takes him to Cape Cod. He gets off at the beach. We see him here. He interacts with Eugene Levy for the first time. Eugene Levy's name is Walter Kornbluth and he is, as you say, some sort of researcher. By the way, eugene Levy got way better looking as he got older.
Speaker 2:It was those eyebrows Like they needed to be a little bit gray, I think.
Speaker 1:I don't, and like he tamed his hair a bit, I don't know Like. I think he's like an attractive man now, not like hot, but like attractive, but he was not a young man Anyway. Anyway, sorry, total aside. So he is a researcher of some kind and we see him sort of berating the locals whose boat he's hired. Alan comes up to him on the beach and is like I'm on the wrong side of the island, I want to be over there, can you guys take me? And Levy's super suspicious. Who sent you? Did Dr So-and-so send you? You're a spy? And Alan's like what? He's still in his tuxedo and his like morning coat from the wedding. Anyway, he ends up hiring a guy in this tiny motorboat and the guy's name is like Fat Eddie or something, and the boat stops working midway. We've learned that Alan can't actually swim. Alan ends up getting knocked out. Fat Eddie jumps into the water because the engine's not working. He's going to go get the other boat the smaller boat, by the way, this is a tiny boat and so eventually Alan ends up in the water. He gets knocked out by the boat because he's managed to make the engine work again, but then fill out and it goes in a circle, blah, blah, blah. So he's sort of sinking down.
Speaker 1:Enter Daryl Hannah. As a mermaid, she rescues him. We watch his wallet fall out of his pants and drop down. She takes him to the beach and it's the same sort of like, just like the Little Mermaid. Like he wakes up in the sand and sees her from a distance. She kind of like peeks up over some rocks at him. She's naked with legs and he's like, hey, who are you? Did you save me? What's going on? And like we don't know what her motivation is. But she just sort of scared a little bit. But she sort of runs up to him, gives him a kiss, not a peck, and runs into the surf and he's like wait, wait, where are you? You know whatever Weird. So we watch her retrieve his wallet and then go to a shipwreck where she pulls a map off the wall like a rolled map of New York, because she's looked at his ID that has a New York address and she smiles at us.
Speaker 2:So she can read English, I guess.
Speaker 1:So he goes back to his life and like whatever. We see him in the fruit business and there's a couple unnecessary sort of comic things and whatever. And then we see we're at the statue of liberty and madison walks up out of the surf completely naked onto liberty you know, the statue of liberty island and she gets arrested for being naked in a public park or whatever. Cut back back to Alan. He gets a call from the cops because she still has his wallet on her and they're like a naked woman is here. Do you know this person? He's like yes.
Speaker 1:I do so. He rushes to find her. They see one another. She kisses him again, again, not a peck, this is not a chaste kiss that she gives him. He takes her home and like. She's not speaking and like, but it's clear they've had it. Like they make it clear they have sex. He has to go to work. Yeah, and we don't see it. It's not on screen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no question, I mean I guess, like you can have consent without? Oh no, there's no question that she consents. She's sort of pursuing him she is very aggressive with the non-chaste touch I'm just thinking, like if this were a real woman, who didn't that like? There's just anyway yeah anyway.
Speaker 1:So he goes to work and leaves her with the tv, and so she's watching TV and like learns I guess learns English from watching TV, I don't know, but we see her sort of say the word Bloomingdale's because she's watching a bunch of advertisements. So the next thing we see she's wearing one of his suits. I don't know how she tied the tie, but she's wearing one of his suits. She goes out the and the. There's a doorman at this apartment building where Alan lives and he says where to miss and she says Bloomingdale's. This is the first word we've heard her say. So she goes to Bloomingdale's. She's immediately met by like. She's like in awe, like looking around Because you know she was born sexy yesterday In this giant department store and immediately a saleswoman, like very New York accent, comes up to her and is like oh, this isn't working, this outfit isn't working. Let's see if we can get you something that fits you. You're such a pretty girl. And then this saleswoman, who's middle-aged late 40s, early 50s says something like like a skinny girl like you. I don't know if she used the word skinny, actually I think she said pretty, you should be in different things. I have a dress I couldn't get one leg in it.
Speaker 1:My daughter though my daughter's lucky, she's anorexic and like it was played for laughs, yeah, so we see she does a lot of shopping. Presumably she took alan's credit card, I don't know, but she's got like bags and bags and bags and she's wearing different clothes. She ends up in the tv department of the department store and is like watching the tvs and like aerobicizing with richard simmons and alan comes home from work. She, she's not in the apartment and so he, like the doorman, says where she went. He goes to Bloomingdale's. He finds her in the TV place and the two sales guys in the TV section of Bloomingdale's are like she's been here for six hours and like she kind of has to go home.
Speaker 1:We're closing and anyway, alan and Madison which that's not her name yet are talking and he says she doesn't speak English to these two sales guys. And then she says hi, alan, how are you? I hope you had a nice day. So they start talking and he's like could you speak English? Why didn't you talk before? And she's like well, I didn't know it, I learned it from watching TV. And he's like well, what's your name? And she said well, it's hard to say in English, and he said well, just say it in your language. And she like squeaks this, like super high pitch, like dolphin kind of whistles, that like busts all the TVs in the room.
Speaker 1:They're walking away from the store and they're talking about their days and she's total combination manic pixie dream born sexy yesterday. Like taking her shoes off while they're walking on the street, like reacting to all these things like oh, look at this, look at that. And like it's almost gets hit by a car, and like one of the drivers is like you should put her on a leash. And then she climbs up on a street pole and points at the walk sign, is like pretty, you know. So that Alan's like well, I guess I've never thought about it, but I guess it's pretty. I've never thought about it, but I guess it's pretty. He says we need a name for you that I can actually pronounce. What do you think? And she's like well, what are they? And he was like well, there's millions of names. And he starts sort of listing names and he says where are we? Oh, madison. He's looking at the street sign and she says oh, I like that name. He says that's not a name, which is really funny from your recollection. And she like gets crestfallen. So he's like no, it's a lovely name, you know what? It's a great name. So that's her name.
Speaker 1:So the thing that you remember with the bathtub that scene is very memorable because the sort of above view of Daryl Hannah in the tail, like stretched out in this tub, is visually very striking. The scene is also really striking. She's in the tub. He wakes up and is like wonders where she is and comes to find her and he says what are you doing? She says taking a bath. He said can I come in? She says no and he's like why? What's the matter? And he actually is like I'm going to bust down this door. And she's like don't come in, don't come in. And he actually busts down the door while she's like trying to dry off because apparently, apparently the magic is that when she's wet she has a tail by the time he gets doesn't have to be salt water or something.
Speaker 2:No, no, okay she does put.
Speaker 1:You were right that she does put salt into the tub, but it does not need to be salt water, gotcha okay. So that moment where there's a woman in the bathroom saying don't come in and he like busts down the door, is not that the charming tom hanks that I know and love, like it's very, it's, it's kind of disturbing and she's upset and then finally, when he does get in, she has legs again and so she's sort of lying on the floor like looking up at him and he was like what is going on? And she was like I was shy and he says shy after what happened in the car and the elevator and the you know, like implying all the sex they've had. And she's like, yeah, I was shy and like that moment stood out to me in a way in this viewing that I don't think it did in the past yeah, if he thought that she was ill or something.
Speaker 1:I think that is what he thinks. Something is wrong, yeah, but I don't think he has any reason to believe she's in trouble. Yeah, yeah. And like needing space and privacy, yeah, especially since they've known each other for a matter of days. Yeah, ugh, anyway. So shenanigans ensue. We see it's not exactly a montage, but it's kind of a montage of, like Eugene Levy has figured out who she is and is trying to like get her wet in public. That is not a euphemism. Like he's literally trying to get water on her.
Speaker 2:That is not a euphemism like he's literally trying to get water on her. Considering what you said about you, know how he has uh, aged like fine wine. It was a little bit more difficult back then so he's trying to.
Speaker 1:He's trying to like get water on her and he keeps mistaking another woman for her. And so we see him. He gets like beat up repeatedly.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, Doesn't he end up with like a neck brace, a neck brace and like one arm in a hard cast.
Speaker 1:Yes, meanwhile, you know, we see them, alan and Madison, like doing stuff together, so like they go for a walk and they see the fountain that you remember, with the mermaid that he says he's always liked, and she's like why? And he's like I don't know. You know, when I was a kid something happened and I don't know. And she says, oh, I remember. And he's like what? And she's like, oh, what's the English word? I meant I understand, like that's how she covers it. And he tells her that that park is being dismantled to make room for apartments or something. So she does end up buying this giant fountain and putting it in his apartment. She buys it with her necklace. We see in the beginning she's wearing this like fancy mermaid necklace. She has said from the very beginning she has one week and then she has to go home, because if she doesn't go home after a week she can't ever go home. So their week is almost up. He thinks it's an immigration thing, they're ice skating and he asks her to marry him so that she can stay.
Speaker 1:And she's like no, and he does not handle it well and he does not handle it well. So they end up kind of running off in separate directions and it's raining, so she ends up sort of hiding under a bridge for a while to avoid the rain. The next morning she comes and finds him at the fruit seller place where he works and says, yes, and he's super excited, they're actually going to drive to Maryland because you don't need it. Or he suggests they drive to Maryland because they don't need a blood test in Maryland, but he has this event to go to. It's a dinner where the president is speaking, so he's taking her instead of Teddy. So they go to this thing and Eugene Levy's Dr Kornbluth is there, and this time Kornbluth manages to get water on her as they're leaving.
Speaker 2:And they get. I can remember she's like in an evening gown or something like that, and then she has a tail.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And she's sort of looking up at him from the ground and he's just sort of stricken and they get pulled apart by like the crowd and like the government sort of agent sort of thing. Like come and like bundle her into like an SUV and she's screaming, she's like yelling his name the whole time. Next we see they're both in a research facility. He's in water up to his neck like naked except for like medical things and like hold it covering his genitals with his hands going I'm not a fish. The scientists are like he's been in there 12 hours and no change. I think maybe he's just a man.
Speaker 1:And then they decide to try interaction. So they bring her in in a sling and drop her into the same tank he's in and he's like so this was your big secret. And she's like, yeah, I was gonna tell you, don't be mad. And he's mad. So she kind of like sinks down to the bottom of the tank and like just looks forlorn. They pull him out, they keep her. He has this conversation with his brother where he's like do you believe it? Like I can't fall in love. I thought there was something wrong with me and I finally fall in love and she's a fish and his brother's. What is wrong with you? Which is a funny?
Speaker 2:line yeah, I fall in love. And she's a fish. Yeah, it's kind of a funny line.
Speaker 1:So John Candy's Teddy's like what is wrong with you? Do you remember how happy she made you? Like very few people get to be that happy. I'll never get to be that happy, and that sort of like gets through to him. So he wants to try and find her but he can't.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile we see Dr Kornbluth who is being completely belittled by the other scientists and we see he's in the room where she's in the tank and the lead scientist is saying like tomorrow we'll take a look at her pulmonary and reproductive systems. Like he makes it clear he's going to kill her and dissect her. And Kornbluth is like uh, maybe we shouldn't do that Like. And she's meanwhile like her tail is kind of like flaking, like she's clearly unwell and miserable. And we see Kornbluth regret what has happened. So Kornbluth teams up with Alan and Teddy to rescue her.
Speaker 1:There's some silly shenanigans where they pretend to be Swedish scientists that are ridiculous and they managed to get her out. And they're like running away and they think they got away out. And they're like running away and they think they got away with it, but they definitely didn't. And then the entire force of the US military is sort of chasing them. They're on a pier in New York Harbor and sort of embracing, and he's like you got to go, they're never going to stop chasing you. You got to go.
Speaker 1:And she says, well, you could come with me. And he's like I can't. And she said, no, don't you remember when you were a kid and you were safe with me? I can do that for you. And he's initially isn't going to. She dives in and is sort of flying and, excuse me, swimming. There's like a helicopter circling and I don't remember, now that I'm telling you the story, exactly what it is that convinces him to follow her. But I think there's a moment where he is convinced, but he does. He follows her and they kiss underwater and now I guess he can breathe and Army Navy scuba divers are like jumping in after them, after them to like try and grab her and she turns out to be like a total badass and like kicks all their asses and then they swim off together in New York Harbor that like has coral and like beautiful fish and no trash.
Speaker 2:So See, that is the most unrealistic aspect of this entire film.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so they basically swim off into the sunset together and that's the end. So I'll start with the easy this does not pass the Bechdel test. I'm sure you could guess that. I mean Madison does speak to the Bloomingdale's assistant or the Bloomingdale salesperson, not about boys or men, but she doesn't have a name. The Bloomingdale's person does not have a name. There is at least one other named character, mrs Stimler, who's like the receptionist, alan's receptionist, but she never speaks to another woman. So it doesn't pass Bechdel. So that's easy. And a reminder, listeners, the Bechdel test from Alison Bechdel. Other at least two named female characters. Do they speak to one another? And do they speak to one another about something other than a boy or a man? The answer is from the very first question is no. Well, no, I guess it's from the second. Second question is no, but let's stay with gender for a moment.
Speaker 1:When I went into watching this movie I didn't have a lot of the things that you actually had in your head. I just remembered sort of a fun rom-com and I remember kind of wanting to be Madison and watching it. Now it is so unclear why she wants this dude Like it is remarkable that he shows up again after 20 years. So maybe, maybe in a generous read I could give that as like she's like. Oh well, it must be because this guy I saw when we were kids just showed up again and I saved him again. So maybe yes.
Speaker 2:In that very beginning.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I think there is meant to be a soulmate kind of a connection between them.
Speaker 2:Yes, and which would explain why he struggles to commit to Veronica, because his soulmate is a mermaid. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is a generous read. I do appreciate that and also not really really helpful for like little baby Tracy and Emily like trying to figure out what romance should look like yeah, or could look like Like it doesn't do what the Disney version of Little Mermaid does, where she gives up her voice in order to be with a man. It does not require her to give up her entire world in order to be with him. In fact, the other way around he gives up his and even from the beginning she has said from the beginning I have a week she never intended to leave her life for him. It was always sort of a visit and not like a permanent stay. It's also pretty sex positive Like she definitely, I mean stay. It's also pretty sex positive Like she definitely, I mean she definitely leads.
Speaker 2:So those things all feel like pretty good, as you were describing it. I was thinking like how much more interesting would this movie be if it were from Madison's point of view?
Speaker 1:Exactly Like. That's the thing that Disney gave us. That this didn't right, Because Disney gave it to us from Ariel's point of view. Like Eric, we only see Eric when Ariel's with him mostly.
Speaker 1:But in this case, actually we, we follow Alan. We have no idea what she's been doing for the past 20 years, we have no idea what her life is like underwater, and I think it would be a lot more interesting. I mean like again, because it is from alan's point of view. Watching it now, I'm like, well, this is a pretty clearly a male fantasy, right? In fact, one of the commentators that I read was like I was a little surprised to read that this was written when the screenwriter was 33, because it reads like something when he was about half that age and I was like, yeah, right on it's kind of right, you know it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just. This gorgeous woman wants only you and travels 300 miles underwater to find you and just wants to find you and have sex with you.
Speaker 2:It's just nice work if you can get it, yeah, yeah. And like why did I identify with Madison? Like what? Because she's a kick ass tail. Oh my God, I wanted a mermaid tail. Oh my God, I wanted a mermaid tail. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, that said, like this is clearly a masturbatory fantasy, I think, ron Howard, in some ways the camera mostly avoids Daryl Hannah's bare-breasted. Many scenes the camera mostly avoids her breasts. There is one scene, like when she's walking on the Statue of Liberty Island, where we zoom in not zoom in but like, definitely clearly look at her ass. But for the most part she's not like, she's not objectified in some of the ways that one might expect from this masturbatory fantasy story. And then she learns about how to be a human woman by watching tv and by shopping and there's a degree to which we're like with this born sexy yesterday and the man I pick a dream that we are meant to like really this form of femininity that she takes on, we're meant to to really like. Like we're meant to identify and like just fall in love. We are also meant to fall in love with her right, not just Alan.
Speaker 1:And so I'm holding all of this tension. That just feels like I'm holding my love for Daryl Hannah's character from when I was Tiny, tiny right. What was I eight in 84? While also all of the sludge that she brought with her from the bottom of the sea.
Speaker 2:You know what's interesting? Because, like the fact that she is able to pick up English in like 12 hours, right, that is phenomenal. Right Intelligence, and just imagine if the TV had been set to C-SPAN Right Intelligence. And just imagine if the TV had been set to C-SPAN Right Instead of Home Shopping Channel or whatever it was Right Like. So it's understandable that she would take on the trappings of what she's seeing, but it's offered to us as if this is how it is to be feminine, rather than this is one of the ways to be feminine right, right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:yeah, so all of that at the same time. Another, and is so I name this as a as a male fantasy, right? This gorgeous blonde who travels 300 miles to have sex with you. At the same time, she saves him repeatedly. In many ways, he is a damsel in distress, both as a child and then when she first saves him after, when he loses his wallet, and even sort of metaphorically, because we see him sort of stuck in this kind of rigidity of the work and of kind of bureaucracy, like even when he talks about getting married. It's all about the bureaucracy, about immigration and the blood tests.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And her kind of wide-eyed born sexy yesterday. Like the wisdom of that trope, because that trope also has the wisdom with it also sort of saving him from the numbness of the bureaucracy and the rigidity from Eugene Levy's colleagues.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But not particularly effectively.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Right, she wouldn't have gotten away if she weren't also a badass.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Because she ends up like literally knocking out all of these scuba diving. I don't know government actors, I don't know if they're supposed to be police or Navy or what.
Speaker 2:Which is another reason why it would be so much more interesting from her point of view, and because when you were talking about how she was looking at like the walk sign and going pretty, I was thinking like wouldn't it be interesting to see Alan's reaction to things that are mundane in the sea? Yeah, because he would go oh pretty about something and she would be like, no, that's just our thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I guess it is pretty Come to think of it. I don't really think about it that way because it's just part of my normal life you know, and so we could have, like the born sexy yesterday man fish out of water.
Speaker 2:That would be fascinating, would be really fascinating. Splash 2, splash 2 I think there is a sequel, is there? Yeah, I think it was like straight to video bullshit, yeah. So one thing that I was thinking about when you're describing the scene in the bathtub, and in particular, because you're saying this is kind of in conversation with the Little Mermaid. So we talked during the Little Mermaid episode about how I really shied away from the Little Mermaid once I had the realization of how anti-feminist it was. She gives up her voice for a man.
Speaker 2:And then I was able to forgive the film when I learned that many, many trans kids of our generation and younger saw it as an allegory for themselves, and so I'm thinking about when she's like no, no, no, it's okay, don't come in, don't come in. That sounds like how it would feel for a non-binary intersex person who is not ready to come out.
Speaker 1:Or anyone who has body dysmorphia and is not in their, is not wearing the trappings of their actual gender, not their biological sex.
Speaker 2:There's an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where Deborah is freaking out at Ray because he's trying to get into the bathroom or something like that. It's basically about the fact that she doesn't feel like she has privacy and she's like bleaching her mustache or something along those lines, so like even cisgendered women feeling the need to keep up the trappings of.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean that is bleaching a woman. Bleaching her a cis woman, bleaching her mustache is gender affirming care. Let's be real, let's be clear here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or even you know, like I don't personally know, but I know of women who like get up early so that their husbands or live-in boyfriends don't see them without makeup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the fabulous Mrs Maisel, we see that happen where she like sets an alarm beforehand so that she can put makeup on before her husband wakes up.
Speaker 2:That to me, I think, is really interesting because, since we're seeing this from Alan's point of view, it's like he's worried, so he breaks the door down, but he doesn't have any reason to actually be worried. He's actually suspicious, right, right. And we're shown he has a right to be suspicious, because she was keeping something from him, because she was a fish, but what she's?
Speaker 2:keeping from him is who she is. She's a fish. She's a fish that I find really interesting. Thinking about it also as a because you could see this as a trans allegory as well where, like you know, I finally fall in love and she's a man, yeah, and John Candy going like are you crazy?
Speaker 1:What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've never been happier than you were with Madison. Yeah, yeah, totally. That's that's nice, yeah, which you know that that can improve this movie a little bit, if you think about it Totally, Totally.
Speaker 1:I mean even Walter Kornbluth's kind of redemption. Yes, Right, Absolutely. Because what? The reason that he changes his tune is? Because he sees he finally has empathy for Madison. He was kind of laughingstock of the scientific community, which is why it became such a mission for him to prove that she existed, because people like what is wrong with you, Like go find us a unicorn. So he was being really belittled by the scientific community. But he, so he became obsessed to sort of clear his name without thinking about the effect that it would have on Madison. He was not thinking of Madison as a person and when he started thinking of her as a person he actually risked a lot like everything, like not just his scientific career, but he risks himself at one point to try and slow down the army guys. He's like standing in the street trying to like stop a truck.
Speaker 2:So I mean, if we take the trans allegory a little bit further, I'm thinking about there are people who are like just icky about trying to prove that you know someone is hiding something. So I'm thinking of Lady Gaga Early on in her career. People would say Lady Gaga has a penis and she refused to respond to it. And someone asked her about it because they, like you, could just very easily deny it.
Speaker 2:And she's like why would I deny something that's not shameful, like it doesn't matter, you know, like, and so I'm just, I'm thinking like, if we look at this as an allegory and like Eugene Levy's character recognizing like this doesn't matter, this is a person who is hurting, right, right, and that's I don't know, that's kind of cool, yeah, yeah, in the midst of this male masturbatory fantasy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with these hints of feminist, take on it, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean even like one of the ways in which this version differs from Disney's Little Mermaid, like part of the sort of hiding thing in Disney's Little Mermaid is with Sebastian and like she's kind of horrified by the eating crabs and lobster and stuff bastion, and like she's kind of horrified by the eating crabs and lobster and stuff in splash.
Speaker 1:They go out to dinner and they order lobster and she like just picks up the lobster and starts chewing on the bites through the shell and it's like you know, like she's like nom nom nom, without opening it, you know, and she looks up and like the entire restaurant is watching and and she's like, oh, this is how we eat lobster where I'm from, so which is like really funny and also like well, I think both of the films kind of with the Born Sexy Yesterday, both of these mermaid films that I'm talking about with the Born Sexy Yesterday, give us some things that are like not feminine or sort of not coded, like not coated, like delicate, right like ariel brushes her hair with a fork and we know why, but like and like madison, like just goes to town, goes down on this, on this lobster, which is like, not feminine, it's not a feminine way to eat, in the way that we are taught to think about femininity.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's an interesting tension. You you know she still is his dream girl, even though she eats lobster like that. And he doesn't know she's a fish yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when he's like oh, I don't care about that, it's fine, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:So, like so much from our childhood, it does like give with one hand and take with the other. I feel like it takes more than it gives, but it's not like it only takes, right? I think there are some films we watch where it's just like yeah, this one's, we don't need to re-watch that this one I don't feel that way.
Speaker 1:Quite with this, though, I wouldn't want my daughter to watch it without talking to me at the same time like there's just a lot about gender roles and and sort of relationship roles, like, aside from this sort of soulmate thing, it's really not clear what she gets from alan, like what does he give her emotionally? Sex is what she, what he gives her. But and like and well, that's another interesting question like, now that they're, they're gonna live in her world where she's got a tail, presumably they're not having intercourse in the traditional way that he's used to.
Speaker 2:Unless they go on to islands. I guess, yeah, I guess, anyway, in Twilight, a mermaid and a human. If it's a paranormal creature and human, the options are that the human becomes the paranormal creature, where you make the girl the vampire, or the paranormal creature becomes human, where the mermaid becomes a human woman. And this is like there's something subversive in the fact that this turns out on its head Totally.
Speaker 1:I do think that that, like both of the Anderson and of the other versions that we then get later, like even the fairy tale, like the fairy tale always asks the woman or always sort of gives us the woman, leaving her life behind to join his. And that's not what happens in this film.
Speaker 2:Or the vampire stories. The love stories that I have actually enjoyed are ones where they part Right Because it can't happen. Or I've read one or two where the vampire is able to become human again. But even then I'm sitting there going like you've been around for 300 years. Becoming human again is not going to appeal. There, going like you've been around for 300 years, like becoming human again, is not going to appeal. So, yeah, there's, there's something very like subversive about that, about that making that choice, but it'd be so much more interesting, yeah, and then we'd also know what. What's in it. For madison yeah, because you know like, okay, maybe he's, he's her manic pixie dream boy, for whatever reason you know, but we don't.
Speaker 2:We don't know why we don't see it?
Speaker 1:No, we really don't. We don't. I mean, like the only thing that we really see is that, like he likes mermaids. Because, because the fountain yeah. Yeah, so anyway, before we hit record, you told me about like an interpretation of this that I hadn't seen. That is really fascinating. Can you share that with me?
Speaker 2:of Alan as he's drowning, as he's dying, because it points out that he nearly drowned the first time he met her, and so there's something wrong that he's going back to this place where he had this horrific near drowning and he's never learned to swim. Right, right, he does not know how to swim, does not know how to swim, and we see that his life is kind of falling apart up until that point. And so if we think about it that way, it makes more sense that the story is actually just this like the random firing neurons of someone as they die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like in Cape Cod when he loses his wallet? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes. So he like none of it actually happens. After that he actually drowns and he comes up with this idea of being saved by this beautiful woman and then like that's why it feels like a male fantasy, because it is. It's his fantasy of how he could survive this horrible accident.
Speaker 1:That actually makes a lot more sense than that. This is magical realism. A lot more sense than that. This is magical realism. I mean honestly, like even just the fact that she finds him again. It's just it. It just doesn't. Yeah, there's like I mean you just have to hit the I believe button.
Speaker 2:So okay, so she can read his driver's license, but she doesn't speak english, right, you know? And she knows enough about humans to know to find a map Right. Shipwreck.
Speaker 1:Right, which presumably she's seen before, but like, still, like, yeah, it's that she's able to figure out and then swims from the waters of Cape Cod to New York Harbor. Yeah, like, yeah, and doesn't die of like I don't know, sludge, poisoning or whatever.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 1:New.
Speaker 2:York Harbor is, you know, gorgeous yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it was filmed like I was looking at the end. It was filmed on location in New York, la, and Nassau, the Bahamas, I think the water like I think the New York Harbor underwater scenes are actually in Nassau, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:So and that's like I think that that interpretation it makes sense and like contextualizes all the stuff that doesn't really fit Yep Totally and then also helps clarify why all these things are just like yeah, this beautiful naked woman has shown up. You know her? Yes, I do. Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah. So I really enjoy those kinds of interpretations. I find it really interesting to kind of think through what is actually happening here, if you don't want to suspend your disbelief.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that a lot, yeah. So those are the things I wanted to share with you. So let me reflect back and you'll fill in where I missed. Those are the things I wanted to share with you, so let me reflect back and you'll fill in where I missed. So the number one thing that I like.
Speaker 2:When I finished watching, I watched with my spouse.
Speaker 1:My spouse said I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this, because they were enjoying the movie and I was like, oh, like, from beginning to end. And that really is what stood out the most to me in rewatching this film is just like, as this reviewer that I read said like the guy who wrote it was 33, but he was tapped into his like 16-year-old self. Right that there's this gorgeous Like Luc Besson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally Luc Besson in the fifth element.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, and in many ways some of the same things from Luc Besson and the Fifth Element, with this gorgeous supernatural creature who just wants to be with you and is a total badass and saves you and you are mediocre in most ways. So that really is what stood out the most. In terms of some of the literary analysis. It does not pass Bechdel, I think. Mostly it is an anti-feminist film, though there are a few feminist moments, especially when we put it in conversation with other interpretations of the Hans Christian Andersen mermaid tale, in particular the fact that at the end, instead of well, in Andersen, like she does not end up with the man, she gains a soul and then dies.
Speaker 1:But in the Disney version that comes about 10 years after Splash, she gets the guy, but she has to give up her entire life and identity in order to be with him and can never go home again. In this version the opposite happens and the human man gives up his identity and his whole world in order to be with her. So some of the tropes we see are born sexy yesterday again a repeat of Luc Besson's Fifth Element. And along with the born sexy yesterday, luc Besson's Fifth Element and along with the Born Sexy Yesterday. These often go together is a manic pixie dream girl, and we see that in the ways that both a wisdom and an intelligence like this woman learned another language by watching TV in a matter of hours, and not just another language.
Speaker 2:This isn't like it's a language that is complete. It's a different species language.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because she speaks like a dolphin. We learn. Yeah, she speaks whale, and now she speaks English with zero accent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as impressive as it would be for, like an English speaker, to learn Japanese. At least they share the same phoneme yeah phonemes. They form sounds in the same way, Right right.
Speaker 1:So this like brilliant creature who also like, looks at the walk sign on the street and is like pretty, you know. So that's how we sort of see that manifest, both the born sexy yesterday and the manic pixie dream, you know, she's taking her shoes off to walk barefoot and, like she's just making him get back in touch with his childlike self. She saves him literally from drowning, both when he's a child and then now as an adult, and she saves him from the numbing and the sort of loveless, rigid, bureaucratic life that he's in, where he's sort of he's just cleaning up messes, that's all he does. He cleans up messes for a living with this fruit wholesaler. In terms of gender, we see she learns English by watching TV, and it's just like broadcast TV with lots of commercials, and so she learns to be a woman by being a consumer, and there's no critique of that.
Speaker 1:The movie does not critique that in any way, and so it's not even that. I think that it's not the way it might happen if someone were dropped into our world from outside all of a sudden. It's that. Can we problematize it a little bit? And we don't at all. It's just like. I mean, we don't even problematize the. My daughter's lucky, she's anorexic like it's just played for laughs, yeah.
Speaker 1:likewise with teddy's dropping coins on the ground to look up women's skirts, like we are meant to find that like, oh, teddy, boys, will boys, yeah. Is the way I think we're meant to react to that, Not in a like ew, you need to be taken off the streets.
Speaker 2:Like so, which is how baby Emily reacted to that. I remember there was 10 years between when I saw it, when I was like I don't know five, six, and then saw it again as in mid-teens, and that was what stuck with me for those 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's gross, it's gross. And he does it as a 10-year-old and then he does it again as a 30-year-old. We do hear Alan say you know, it was funny when you were 10. And Teddy says I find something that works for me and I stick with it Again. Boys will be boys. Ugh, gross, we again, boys will be boys, gross. We also you brought in, sort of because of the little mermaid. You you kind of ask the question like what if this were a trans allegory? And I think there is something that's makes this much more palatable if I think of it that way. And um, you also brought in this fan theory about the whole film. After he gets hit in the head while he's in the water is actually his fantasy as he dies, which again like hmm, now that's an interesting film, now it's an interesting film. So those are some of the things. Let me see. Was there anything else that I said?
Speaker 2:we talked a little bit about how much more interesting this would be if we're from madison's point of view and if we got to see alan reacting to his new world right right, yeah, and I mean I guess just to reiterate I've already said it, but like it's really unclear what's in this relationship for Madison. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm. So yeah, I'm probably not going to need to watch this one again. So I mean, it's not, it's not one that I'm like, don't watch it.
Speaker 2:But it's not Revenge of the Nerds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not Revenge of the Nerds, but neither is it.
Speaker 2:Want like Stand by Me, stand by Me. Oh, I want to see that yeah. Anyway, Next week Em Next week, you're bringing me some deep thoughts. Yeah, I'm bringing you my deep thoughts about the Dark.
Speaker 1:Crystal oh, another Henson property.
Speaker 2:We love the Muppets. All right, see you then.
Speaker 1:This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make it free to produce. All right, see you then.