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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Galaxy Quest: Deep Thoughts About Fandom, Tropes, and Science Fiction Storytelling
By Grabthar’s hammer, you shall be avenged!
The 1999 film Galaxy Quest was almost tailor made for the Guy sisters and their dad–all lifelong Trekkers. The sci-fi satire pokes gentle fun at Star Trek, lightly skewering everything from the story tropes to the actors to the fans, all while offering a lovely tribute to folks who get really enthusiastic about their favorite media. The film also does one of our favorite things: it takes the craft of sci-fi storytelling seriously without taking itself seriously. But as Tracie points out in her analysis, the rosy depiction of fandom in Galaxy Quest is partially a product of its time, since gatekeeping, cruelty, and vitriol have become synonymous with fandom in the intervening years.
Never give up; never surrender–and take a listen!
We are Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our extended family as the Guy Girls.
We both have super-serious personas in our "day jobs." No, really. Emily is a Finance writer who used to be a classroom teacher. Tracie writes and consults on social justice and mindfulness and works as a copywriter and project manager for non-profits. If you really need to see the bona fides, please visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com
For our work together, what you need to know is that Tracie is older (3 years), Emily is funnier (by at least 3 percent), and we're both hella smart, often over-literal, and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love movies and tv, science fiction and murder mysteries, good storytelling with liberal amounts of dramatic irony, and analyzing pop culture for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, and whatever else we find there.
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
I want to talk about the way that this movie portrays and thinks about, and the messages it conveys about, fandom. I think a lot of these spoof movies end up sort of shitting on fans, and this doesn't at all. It's very gentle and appreciative of fans and I really I like that. Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just pop culture, what others might deem stupid shit? You know matters. You know what's worth talking and thinking about, and so do we. So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit. I'm Tracy Guy-Decker and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't? You know what's in your head? On today's episode, I'll be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1999 film Galaxy Quest with my sister, emily Guy-Burken, and with you. Let's dive in. Okay, I know you've seen this. I think maybe we've seen it together. Tell me what's in your head about Galaxy Quest.
Speaker 2:I think I remember it pretty well. So the things that I like stick in my head are I think it's Justin Long who's the fan who is trying to and his mom's like no, you have to take the trash out now. Yeah, so that moment, like, was just so delightful. And then there's a point where, like they're, I'm like well, how can you tell how old they are? Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:The actual line it says oh, could they be the minors? And Tony Shalhoub's character goes yeah, they're only three years old. And Alan Rickman's character goes minors, not minors.
Speaker 2:And then Alan Rickman, just being a delight to like.
Speaker 1:Where are you?
Speaker 2:going To see if there's a pub. And then also there's a point where Tim Allen's character's shirt gets torn off and Alan Rickman's character's just like oh yeah, of course, now he's shirtless, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So like these little jokes are what I remember from it. I remember it feeling seen by this movie in that like we were never super fans of Star Trek growing up, but we grew up with it.
Speaker 1:We were fans, though. I mean, dad took us to a convention, do you remember?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember. So it felt like this movie was for us in a lot of ways, because it was not only, like you know, fans are actually pretty cool because like that Justin Long character is how they're able to survive but it also winked at like how ridiculous this thing that we love is. And we love it anyway, and I just remember dad being tickled by it Particularly, we're recording this on the 12th anniversary of when we lost dad, so like it feels appropriate that we're talking about it today, because I just remember dad giggling, like when dad was really, really amused by something. His laugh was just so infectious, yeah, yeah. So tell me, why are we talking about it?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, all the things you just said. I think we're talking about it now in part because I recently saw a fan or a listener who commented on our Apple podcast site and said I wonder if the hosts would ever tackle Star Trek. And we see you, listener. Thank you for the suggestion and also I am totally intimidated by tackling Star Trek. It's just so so big and so much ink has been spilled talking about it and so many iterations and versions of it that it feels too big, certainly for a single episode, and so looking at Galaxy Quest, which was looking at Star Trek, felt like a way to sort of move in that direction in a chunk. I could handle a little bit. So that's kind of why it came to the top of the list right now, and some of the things I want to talk about you've already sort of started pointing to.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about the way that this movie portrays and thinks about and the messages it conveys about fandom. I think a lot of these spoof movies end up sort of shitting on fans and this doesn't at all. It's very gentle and appreciative of fans and I really I like that. I like that. That's kind of what you were naming about sort of feeling seen. So I want to talk about that. I want to talk about the meta storytelling, the way that it's commenting on Star Trek and it does that in so so many ways, and not just Star Trek, other TV science fiction shows that get a lot of you know, that sort of dedicated fan base, but I think Star Trek in particular, and it does that sort of meta conversation in a lot of ways. I think a similar actual film might be Scream. In terms of the meta conversation I need to do Scream at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would like for you to do that. But the way that it sort of explicitly names some of the tropes and therefore sort of critiques but also comments on, but then also uses, I think, or subverts in some way, I think is really really interesting. It does it through casting, it does it through dialogue, it does it through plot devices. So I want to sort of tackle that a little bit or point to it. It also looks at gender a bit in the film, in the meta conversation about what was happening in Star Trek, and so I want to talk about gender, as we often do, and in casting, like casting Sigourney Weaver as the only real female character of any. Well, there's a Thermion, but anyway.
Speaker 1:And then finally I want to talk about sort of the power of story in our lives, because I think there's a powerful lesson about that through Alan Rickman's character and his interaction with one of the aliens, but just in general. So those are kind of the buckets that I'll get to in our conversation. Before we get there, let me remind you and our listeners of the basic plot. I'm going to keep it relatively. I know I say this every time, but I think I actually can.
Speaker 2:I've heard that before. I've been burned by you before.
Speaker 1:I'm going to sketch it out briefly. So we meet the cast of this now off the air TV show called Galaxy Quest. They're at a convention and most of the cast are backstage waiting to come on to be introduced. They're waiting for Jason Nesbitt, who is played by Tim Allen. He played the commander, so the Captain Kirk equivalent, whose name was the Galaxy Quest character's name is Peter Quincy Taggart. The actor's name is Jason Nesbitt, played by Tim Allen. They're waiting for him to show up. So the cast is Gwen waiting for him to show up. So the cast is Gwen, who is played by Sigourney Weaver, Gwen DeMarco.
Speaker 1:There's Sir Alexander Dayne, played by Alan Rickman, who plays the sort of Spock character with like alien head makeup Think like Next Generation Star Trek kind of. There's Tony Shalhoub who plays Fred Kwan, who was the tech sergeant, and then Tommy Weber, who played Laredo, who was a child protege pilot in the original show. Now he's a grown up, he's the Wesley Crusher. He's the Wesley Crusher, Right, but a black guy. Which Star Trek? I guess we had that with Nichelle Nichols in the original.
Speaker 2:In the original.
Speaker 1:Well, and then we had Geordi LaForge Right. Yes, thank you for reminding me of LeVar.
Speaker 2:Burton, levar Burton. Thank you, I couldn't think of the actor's name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they're all being introduced by a guy, guy Fliegman, played by Sam Rockwell, who actually turns out had been like an extra on one episode, but he was the one introducing them. He was the red shirt, like the one who died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he was introducing them at the convention. Jason finally shows up, tim Allen character finally shows up and he just kind of like waltzes in and they get introduced and we see them. So we see things. They know each other really well. So Alan Rickman's character is having a panic attack and Tim Allen's character is like am I too late for Alex's panic attack? And nope, still happened Anyway. So it's clear they've been doing this for a while. They go from appearance to appearance and Jason, tim Allen's character, just eats it up. He believes all of the stuff and we see the movie makers show us that he's really grooving on it. He has all of the stuff and we see, like the movie makers show us that he's like really grooving on it, like he has a really big ego as a result of the way the fans kind of gush over him. So we see them at the convention. Jason overhears in the bathroom some guys kind of making fun of him and noting how he just has no idea that his friends can't stand him. And so then he gets real short with some fans, specifically actually Justin Long's Brandon, who like wants to ask very technical questions, like in episode 51, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like he wants to like an answer because there's some like continuity problem in the science, that he wants to ask Jason, who is very short with him and is like look, kid, it's just a TV show, so fast forward. Jason's hungover and these guys show up who act real weird. They're wearing uniforms and they talk real funny.
Speaker 1:Enrico Colantoni plays Mathisar. He's the leader and he sort of says like your help is desperately needed. And he introduces himself we are Thermians from the whatever sector Like he names the place in space that they're from and Jason thinks it's a like a gig that he agreed to and it turns out they're actually aliens. So, all hungover, jason like is on the bridge of this actual ship that's based on the show and he like is supposed to be negotiating a peace with this bad guy, saris, and instead he's like throw all the weapons at him and then he like leaves when they send him home. They send him home on the equivalent of the like transporter, but it's not. It doesn't look like it did in the original Star Trek. It actually like is this like goo that like envelops him and then shoots him through space. So he lands back at his home and he's like shaking. So he goes to find his castmates and is like it's real, it's real, you know, you guys got to come with me. And anyway they spurn him. And then they're like maybe we should just take the gig. And one of them is like wait, do you think this was a gig? Like there's money. And so then they go with him because the Thermians have come back to say Sarah survived and we need your help. So they're like you're not taking this gig without us. So they all go and now there are these actors on this actual spaceship and they're fighting a real bad guy.
Speaker 1:The Thermians have been receiving our television transmissions, which they have no concept of pretend or lying, and so they receive them as quote-unquote historical documents. We learned that their society was in disarray, but they've remade their entire society based on the model of galaxy quest. And the actors are like surely you have theater on your planet? Like I mean, surely you don't think gilligan's island is documents? And all of the Thermians like get this sad face. And they're like those poor people it's just such a great gag. And like the person through whom Thormians have learned what lying is and they like are terrible at the things that their characters would have excelled at, and so that's like humbling and also interesting for them.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile there's this meta conversation going on about the old show. So Sigourney Weaver, her character Gwen, was like and I think this is a bit of a comment on Nichelle Nichols' character a little bit where, like, her job was to talk to the computer and to repeat what the computer said, like. So at one point even one of the other ones I think it's Tommy, the Wesley Crusher equivalent, says you know, that's getting really annoying, and she's like I have one job on this ship, one and I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:And she also like, has like a push-up bra and is like boobs.
Speaker 1:Well, right, yes, so her uniform, like they all zip up the center and hers in the original, was always like the zipper was not up to her neck, it was down a little bit to show off a little decolletage. And then in the course of the movie we're watching, it gets like her uniform gets like ripped and the zipper comes down and so we're seeing like big portions of her bra. That's the same maroon as part of the uniform. So, yes, there's a lot of boob which is in the movie we're watching. Yeah, as much as it is in like the original TV show.
Speaker 1:So when they realize like how bad this is, at one point they had run away at like full turbo, which is not designed to do that, and they broke the ship and so they need to go find a new beryllium sphere which is like the power source. That's how they end up on that planet with the miners who are not miners, and therein lies a lot of the sort of commentary and meta. So, guy, who's the was an extra and just was like happy to be a part of the show now is terrified, he's gonna die because he's like he's the red shirt.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:and so, like the shuttle lands on this ship and Tony Shalhoub's character goes to open the door and Guy is like what are you doing? Is there even air? You don't know. And then he takes a deep breath and holds his breath and Tony Shalhoub's character is like seems okay.
Speaker 2:Tony Shalhoub is a delight.
Speaker 1:He is so great in this film. He's so great in this film so they get this fear. There's a lot of commentary that like points to like guys, like did you guys even watch the show? Like we can't do that, we can't just go talk to these aliens. So they get this fear, they get it all set up and then the bad guys. This is all out of order, but at some point the bad guys are on the ship.
Speaker 1:We see interactions. We see lots of interactions where we learn about the Thermian society and the ways that these aliens have interacted with the historical documents I'm putting quotes around that and the characters. There's one character from the aliens, quelek is his name, and he idolized Alan Rickman's character and Alan Rickman we have seen, hates that. This is what he's known for. He hates having been typecast. He has a Shakespearean training and he hates that he's been typecast as this alien.
Speaker 1:And there's this line that the character always said by Grapthar's hammer, you shall be avenged. And he's like. We see him at the very beginning saying I will not say the line and at one point Quelek starts to say it to him and he's like stop, don't, just don't. And you can see that Quilek is like so hurt by that, like I'm so sorry I won't whatever Quilek says to him at one point I hope this isn't too far, but I've always thought of you as a father, because I didn't have one and Quilek ends up getting shot and he's dying and Alex says the line to him in all sincerity and you see the character, the actor I don't know who played Quelek, but I guess I can look it up.
Speaker 1:Patrick Breen plays Quelek and you can see him being comforted by having his idol say this famous line to him as he's dying, like famous line to him as he's dying. And then alex actually like is so pissed off and like wants to avenge this young person, this young alien that he actually like starts attacking the, the bad guys, and like kills a bunch of them. So they managed to get through this because j accidentally swapped communicators with Brandon, who is a teenaged fan who is very into it, and so Brandon and his friends there are three or four others all get on the line and they're like helping Jason and Gwen move through the ship, based on their understanding of this fictional ship.
Speaker 2:There's that point where there's like the chopping thing. The chompers they call them yeah yeah, and I remember Sigourney Weaver going you've got to be kidding me, yeah yeah, why is this?
Speaker 1:even here, and at one point, when they get through that bit, it's like these big hammers that are just like crushing in alternate directions that they have to sort of work their way through. And when they get to the end, there's this flame that spurts up and she's like whoever wrote this episode should be killed, or something like that. So Brandon and his friends help Gwen and Jason, like do all that we learn about the Omega 13, which nobody really knows what it is, because the writers never actually said Brandonon. Some people think it's a huge bomb that will totally destroy the entire universe. Brandon and his friends think it's actually a matter rearranger. That will give you a 13 second. Like jump you back 13 seconds into the past.
Speaker 1:The very end they managed to through through skill, like Tommy has been practicing by watching the old episodes to see how to work the navigation. They managed to actually beat Saris the bad guy and blow up his ship, but at the last minute he actually transported or whatever onto their ship. Saris did, saris did. They're all celebrating that they've won. They're going to go home. They actually have set a course for Earth. And then Tony Shalhoub's character, fred, comes in onto the bridge and he starts shooting everybody. And then he like hits a button and it's actually Saris, having used some sort of cloaking thing.
Speaker 2:So Mathisar and Jason activate the omega 13, go back as far as the, the captain, the leader of the thermians.
Speaker 1:Okay, they go back 13 seconds and jason's able to prevent saris successfully, like shooting everybody. Then they crash the thermion separate with like a little shuttle and the ship crash, lands into the convention. And then they all step out onto the stage like there's a dude who just like opportunistically, like picks up the microphone and introduces them as they come out, mm-hmm, and saris has survived. He comes out and jason happens to have a ray gun and shoots him and he like explodes and the fans just go wild and we see gwen and jason kiss and like yay, everything's great and one of the thermians.
Speaker 2:Yes, because I remember sam rockwell, because when they start kissing and then like tentacles are coming out and he's like, oh, oh, no, that's not okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that happened a little earlier, when Tony Shalhoub, when, um, that character, fred is able, he doesn't think he can do what needs to be done and he does it. And and this female Thermion her name is Lalani or something, I'm probably saying Laliari, laliari, played by missy pile.
Speaker 2:She, yeah, she, she's into it I guess, and then she goes with him and stays on earth, she goes with him and then.
Speaker 1:So the last two like two minutes of the film galaxy quest is being brought back for new adventures with all of them, including guy, who is now the like chief security officer or something which, by the way, when everybody was being shot in the first version before the 13 second backup, guy was the only one who didn't get shot it's a reverse red shirt yeah, so we see that the the show has been revived and now includes Guy, and Laliari is there?
Speaker 1:she's, that's the character's theme played by Jane Doe, so that's it. Okay, it wasn't, it's never, it's never. Anyway, that's the basic plot. Mixed in there is all of this commentary about, like we said along the way, you know, sigourney Weaver's character saying like whoever wrote this should be shot. It doesn't make any sense and, as you noted when, when you were remembering, there's one point where jason is like fighting this rock monster and ends up with his shirt off, and so alex says to him of course you managed to get your shirt off, and I don't remember what the context is, but gwen says to jason, like that's rich, coming from someone who slept with every cerulean slave girl that ever you know or whatever you know. So there's a lot of commentary on some of the things that people talk about about star trek, including in yeah, including the like, the idea that william shatner has an ego, because it's it's like what's interesting.
Speaker 2:It's not just about the show, or even just the show and the fans, it's also like what we know about the actors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So all of that is really, really interesting. So in talking about that meta piece, I want to talk about some of the choices that our filmmakers made, right? So I think in the writing they comment on the tropes that we saw in the show and then they subvert them or they lean back into them, and I think that's really interesting, like the fact that Guy is the only one who doesn't get shot, which they've been talking the whole time about. The fact that we had expendable crew members in Star Trek episodes. Like we knew, if there's a guy we never met before wearing a red shirt, he's probably going to die, right, like that was a thing, that was a pattern that we knew and they talk about it and then they subvert it, which is really interesting. And even the way the guy's like have you even seen the show? That reminds me of Scream, right, like, and things that we've talked about before. Actually, when we talk about horror, if you know what genre you're in, you make different choices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in you make different choices. Yeah, well, and also I feel like there's a little bit of commentary on star trek, the next generation and patrick stewart who, like he was shakespearean trained, shakespearean trained, and he did not think it would last. So like, if I remember correctly, like he tried, he didn't really get to know his castmates. Everyone thought he was a dick the first year and I think he didn't even like get a long-term apartment or something Because he didn't think it was going to last.
Speaker 1:There's no way this will last, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was also like the casting choices, right? So Sigourney Weaver, who we have talked about in Alien, and her role in Alien.
Speaker 2:And Ghostbusters.
Speaker 1:And Ghostbusters. Yes, true, I think.
Speaker 1:For me, alien, because it's set in space, feels the more relevant echo with her casting, and there's something really ripe for me about Weaver being cast in this role versus her role in Alien which was so no-nonsense and gritty and, as we talked about, she was still the gorgeous woman that she is, but was not hypersexualized not at all whereas this character is self-consciously hypersexualized, like there's commentary on it, and so I think there's something really interesting in that. That doing that to and with sigourney weaver, who has this anchor in science fiction in a different role, so like reminding us that it is not by choosing her part of the meta commentary is that the hypersexualization of a female character in space is not required, I think, even though she is in this movie well, and I feel like there's also there's an echo to like sigourney weaver is a really intimidating, impressive person and she's blonde in this, isn't she?
Speaker 2:yes, and like, always fully made up and like the boobs, and I'm thinking about like nails, like nails, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:She's very hyper feminine, hyper sexualized, yeah, and I feel like there's a commentary in there also about the very well-known story about Nichelle Nichols, after the first season of Star Trek, wanted to quit because she felt like she was being marginalized and tokenized, because she was Like she was wearing they made her wear a short skirt. All she did was repeat things very much like the Gwen character in this, and it was actually Martin Luther King who convinced her to stay because he was saying you don't know who you are inspiring. And so Nichelle Nichols was also a very intimidating and impressive individual, like she was so much more than this pretty Black woman who acted like a secretary Right In the show. And it kind of gets to those decisions that people from marginalized communities have to make when taking roles marginalized communities have to make when taking roles. And we also know that Whoopi Goldberg was inspired by Nichelle Nichols because she went on to become Guinan on Star Trek, the Next.
Speaker 1:Generation.
Speaker 2:Even though she's known as a comedian. But she loved that there was a Black woman on the bridge of the Enterprise and she wanted that too. So like it's. It's so much like there's so much in there yeah, it's very ripe.
Speaker 1:It's very ripe. Yeah, it definitely is. I think it's also, when I think about casting not just weaver but the other like this was really an all-star cast at the time in 99 and, like rockwell, was not yet an oscar but, he goes on to win an Oscar and, like he does, a really great job.
Speaker 2:She's a phenomenal actor In many ways.
Speaker 1:Guy is, I don't know, sort of the heart, because it's through him that we get a lot of the commentary on the show. I mean it's also through Gwen and Jason. But he actually will sort of say explicitly like this is how it works in the show which is kind of.
Speaker 1:It was a great choice, I think, in terms of storytelling to have this guy who was a hanger on to come along to then give us some exposition but also some of that meta commentary, and Rockwell's just a great actor, so that also really helped. So, and Tim Allen was at the height of his popularity in 1999. It was before he revealed what a nutjob he is, rickman is and was and has been. I mean, I think it was before he became Severus Snape, but he was already sort of a well-known face in Hollywood. So, like, I think the casting was really really powerfully good and gave us those sort of as you say, the actors are sort of tropes, right, like Shaloob's Kwan. Fred Kwan is like the only one who, after the initial transport, is not freaking out. He's like whoa, that was a thing. He's just totally chill, that was a thing. He's just totally chill and like, like at one point he like talks to the bridge he's like, because he's supposed to be like scotty, like um, the the engineer, the chief engineer.
Speaker 1:He's like so we could do this thing, and what do you think? And they're like yeah, let's do that. And he's like right again.
Speaker 2:Come on, guys, group hug well, the the other thing is like, because there's a point where he's, when he's not sure he can do like like the transport or whatever it is, and I think it's Alan Rickman, I don't remember Someone's like you always had your lines, you always were so professional, like you can do this.
Speaker 2:And these fandoms, these people who it's a gig but they take it seriously, they take the craft seriously, but not themselves. He is exactly that Right, right, and even though because you've got the Alan Rickman character who thinks this is beneath him, right, and then you've got the Tim Allen character who thinks this represents how excellent. He is Like his merit His like you know he His worth, his worth Because, like you know, he's Captain Jason Nesmith or whatever. No, he's Captain Peter.
Speaker 1:Quincy Taggart, peter Quincy Taggart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when it's just a show and like in between them is the Tony Shalhoub character who just recognizes this is a gig. But I am. I'm going to give it my all because I was hired for this.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 1:I think that's right.
Speaker 1:That I feel like a little bit gives with one hand and takes with the other is the way that our movie talks about sort of the treatment of romance and shipping in the original backstory TV show, right, so at one point, like early, early on, we see Jason sort of hit on Gwen and she's like it was cute when I didn't know you.
Speaker 1:But then when they think they're going to die, he says Gwen, I've always. And then he doesn't say it and then they don't die and she's like what were you going to say? And at the very like when they get off the ship and Saris is dead and they're on the stage at the back at the convention, he kisses her dramatically and she likes it, she's into it and you know the fans go wild and I think by having her spurn him in the beginning, that feels like commentary on the ways that you know the RPF real people, people, fiction, kind of shipping that people end up doing for actors, and even the shipping that we do for characters, this sort of like they're, it's convenient, and so we sort of create a romance in our, in our mind, whether or not it actually makes sense for the characters, but then they end up together, and so that's why it feels like give with one hand and take with the other.
Speaker 1:So I kind of wish if instead they had just sort of hugged and it felt more platonic. I think this movie would have been like chef's kiss almost perfect. That really, like on rewatch, bothers me. The other thing, the other thing about this, now that I am a part of very active fandoms I don't think that it would have been the Gwen and Jason shipping. I was just thinking that it would have been Alex and Jason, alex and Jason shipping.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking that because, like, the slash fiction comes from Kirk and Spock yes, exactly which? And like, if you're not aware. So slash fiction means when you pair two same-sex characters, and the way they would do that is because they would say it was Spock slash Kirk or Kirk slash Spock, whereas if it was just friendship they would do an ampersand Kirk and Spock. And so, like, the term slash came to mean any, and so I learned about the term slash when I was in the X-Files fandom and there would be Mulder and Skinner, so it would be Mulder slash Skinner, which I've never, I mean like Mitch Pelleggi, but I didn't get it at the time. Things change, I didn't get it at the time. Things change. Anyway, but you are right, and if they made it I don't know, maybe not, but I feel like maybe if they made it now, there would still be the hitting on, but you'd see, at least the fans would be like I thought I saw a little something between you two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe, although my most vivid memory about going to that Star Trek convention, because I would have been what 10, 11? You were about 13, 14?. Something like that. Yeah, I was about then. It was after the one with the whales came out, the movie with the whales which Four, Four, and there was a woman asking it because William Shatner was there, yeah, and he was taking questions. And a woman got up from the back like, and then came like all the way to the front.
Speaker 2:I remember her and he was like, oh whoa, and she was asking about the romantic tension between the 20th century woman that is there in that film that you know it's Kirk's, you know, lover of the day and, like I as a kid, remember being like, wow, she's really intense about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I vaguely remember her, you know, it's funny that you say if it were made today, because one of the things that I think about if it were made today is, I think, now. One of the things I named was I think this film is very gentle with fans Like Brandon, the teenage fan, and his friends save the universe, basically, and they're basically good people Like, I think, all of the fans. We kind of get the sense that they're just, they're good people who just really love something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, this film being made in 99, sort of at the very early stages of, like, the internet, where we were still using AOL chat rooms fandom has changed as a result of the internet and social media and I'm not sure that one can tell a story about fandoms and sort of be like yeah, they're just basically good people who really love them.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's true Even in the fandoms, of which we are a part. There's some vitriol that people direct at one another if they disagree about interpretations, foundations of the show. You know like they're decidedly like camps and, as with any politics where the stakes are actually quite low, the politics are vicious, and that's a piece that I think in some ways like harkens back to a gentler time. So I both appreciate that our movie makers of the movie Galaxy Quest in 99 did not shit on fans. I also think that they were portraying a fandom that was less susceptible to the kinds of vitriol because it was less connected, less interconnected, less immediately connected than we are today with Tumblr and Twitter and all of the other ways that we keep in touch with Discord servers and whatnot. The way that we keep in touch with one another these days, that ends up in such like vitriolic clicky kinds of community Like, not even just inter-fandom.
Speaker 2:Intra-fandom, int. Inter-fandom in tra-fandom, in tra-fandom. Yeah, one thing that is coming up for me, though, is so I said, like you know, we weren't super fans of star trek, but you know why I said that? Because I'm a girl, and so even then there was gatekeeping about nerd culture Like, oh, you like Star Trek. Well, you know name blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like you know, and in the way that any woman who is interested in something that is male coded, or needs to credential herself, needs to credential herself.
Speaker 2:And the fact that Justin Long is are all his friends. Boys, no, there's one girl. There's one girl.
Speaker 1:She doesn't have a name, yeah, or I mean I'm sure she has a name, but we don't learn it.
Speaker 2:So intra-fandom vitriol is also like we gets to this realization that I've had over the past few years that every human community is a microcosm of the human community Interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that might be right. Yeah, there was, you're right, there was absolutely gatekeeping even in 99. I think it didn't have the same kind of reach and scale because of the ways in which our current interconnectedness through the internet.
Speaker 2:You know, other than going to that convention, I had no way of interacting with the Star Trek fandom.
Speaker 1:Right, right, well especially when we were children. Children.
Speaker 2:Yes, but even as a like I was an X-Files fan, Like I would have called myself an X-Files fan. I did not interact with the fandom, in part because, like, it just never occurred to me to get into fan fiction I just I just didn't, I just didn't think about it. And so because and that's often the entry point into fandom, right, but you can't avoid it. Now, you know, just being on social media, you are exposed to fandom I mean, you could avoid it if you wanted to.
Speaker 2:But okay, if you are someone who likes, if you like a who likes, if you like a show a lot, if you like a show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah. So those are some interesting things about. So I think you're pointing out the fact that there was gatekeeping that is gendered and racialized. I will note that this film does not pass the Bechdel test, so the Bechdel test as a reminder, listeners is from Alison Bechdel. We ask ourselves three questions Are there at least two named female characters? So they actually have names, do they talk to one another? And do they talk to one another about something other than a man or a boy? And we do have two named female characters, but they don't talk to one another. So there'swen, and then there's lalari, the thermion, who, who ends up with fred, and they don't talk to one another. And what's interesting is that like there's a degree to which, like that's the case, because that was the case with star trek, but on the other hand, our filmmakers self-consciously, intentionally, like broke a lot of those things but, gender was not one of the ones that they felt the need to do.
Speaker 1:And we see female fans at the convention dressed like Gwen's character. She even poses for pictures with them.
Speaker 1:And they witness the exchange where she says I thought it was cute when I didn't know you. And then Jason looks at them and they all kind of giggle and wave. So it's still like they're still doing the thing, even as they watch their idol snub him, so, which in some ways feels like an accurate portrayal of the way humans behave, and in other ways I want more like so. If I were to make a galaxy quest-esque movie today, I would have a lot more female characters and I would have them like talk about this, like what's great and what's shitty you know, so that's the thing that I just I just wanted to name, you know, especially since you brought up the gate, the gendered and and racialized pieces of the gatekeeping.
Speaker 1:But the last thing that I I kind of pointed to, and then I'll just I just want to sort of spell out a little more that I think that this film really takes seriously, is the power of story to comfort and to create and build community like, and the way that people come together on it, like, in some ways this is a another story of found family, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, so many movies that's what it's about, or at least movies that you and I seem to be drawn to. That was one of dad's favorite things and in some ways this is another one of those. Because they come together again, this cast who knows each other in some ways very well and like kind of just tolerate each other, but they really like, they work together toward common cause, ie their own survival, and end up like, really like coming to appreciate one another again. And it was the stories that they were telling that helped them do that, this dying friend or acquaintance even. But who idolized him and doing that? And you had, before we started recording, you had a related anecdote that you wanted to share about that.
Speaker 2:So that Hammer of Grapthor thing by Grapthor's Hammer, whatever, reminded me of something I remember seeing. It's probably been 20 years ago. Vh1 used to have the behind the music TV show and often they would go and look at like one hit wonders and so many one hit wonders were like, resentful of the one hit because they're serious musicians, they've been creating art all this time and people only, like they do concerts and people only want to hear the hits, that's all they care about. And if I remember correctly, it was Biz Markie, who wrote you Got what I Need, who said like I'll play that all day long, every day. I made something that everybody loves. I made something that made people feel good. I did that and so I'm going to play that for them because that's what they want to hear, even though he went on to make lots of other music.
Speaker 2:And I just so appreciated that way of looking at it because I can totally understand the resentment of like you know you do something and it takes off, especially if it's a lot of times these one-hit wonders were just like they threw it together in a week. Our friend of the show, scott Kenimore, talks about his first book, the Zen of Zombie. He wrote in like three weeks and it sold immediately, even though the soulful, like all him, like kind of semi-autobiographical stuff that he poured his heart and soul into nobody was interested in and there's something that hurts about that. But at the same time it's like recognizing that you've done something that resonates with other people. Recognizing that you've done something that resonates with some, with with other people, and what a gift and privilege that is, even if it's not what you wanted.
Speaker 1:Recognizing that it's not necessarily about you as the artist the way you said it before we started recording was that there are some things that are for you as the artist and there are some things that are for them your fans and that's a moment that alex has as Quellick as dying. It's not for Alex anymore, it's for Quellick.
Speaker 1:And I think that really resonated when you said that. That's why I'm lifting it back up. I just was naming that, you know. I think that's something that our filmmakers kind of are recognizing about Star Trek right and sort of putting on display for us about Star Trek, about the power of story and storytelling to move us and to bring us together. So, I think that's part of why it feels so delightful to you and me who care so much about story and storytelling yeah.
Speaker 2:I do want to. Before you wrap up, there's one other thing that I really associate with this film, one other thing that I really associate with this film with our dad, which is I feel like I had a conversation with dad about how, even though the Thermians appear very human-like, that the movie did a good job in showing us something alien in their complete inability to understand deception or pretend or lying. And I feel like we had a conversation, I don't know, but about how such a small difference because it really does feel like a small difference can make a huge difference in how you interact with the world and the way that you do things. And it reminded me of there's one of the famous Next Generation episodes, shaka, when the Walls Fell.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's what the episode's called, but there's a race.
Speaker 1:That's the phrase that he keeps. They only speak in metaphor.
Speaker 2:They speak in metaphor, and I remember talking to dad about that and we were like, how do you have scientific discoveries if you speak in metaphor? And I remember talking about an atom and I remember like talking about like an atom, like how would you describe an atom with you know something orbiting and like. I remember thinking of like when I was really little and dad could like spin me around so that I like and so that would be the metaphor you know what it's really fascinating we don't have time for is that I all.
Speaker 1:Language is metaphor, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, a cell like in our bodies, cell is so named because when they finally saw it on our microscope it reminded the scientist of monk's rooms yeah, yeah, yeah anyway and so that piece of it I just remember being part of what dad loved about this movie yeah because it's taking the science fiction seriously, even as it's like completely making did take that science fiction seriously Like aliens aren't going to look like us, yeah, but we need them to look like us. And so, yeah, well, that's why there's the tentacles when Lelari and Fred are getting it on Right, right and Sam Rockwell is so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, guys just like oh, oh, oh, don't oh it's really funny, so, but that's that.
Speaker 2:That's the sort of thing that I think like when we talk about. You know, take the craft seriously, but not yourself.
Speaker 1:You know, thinking through the, the to the logical consequences of a society that is entirely truthful, right, right, even the fact that they thought that Gilligan's Island was real, like that it was like it's for comic effects but actually like it helps like fully paint the picture.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and that's the kind of thing I feel like dad loved about sci-fi, like he really loved when it was just like oh, how would that change the way people did things? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, well, let me see if I can wrap up our highlights and then you can fill in anything I miss. So we talked a lot about how this movie, galaxy Quest, creates a commentary on Star Trek, and it's multi-layered. So it's about Star Trek, the fiction that we, you know from the 60s, that we watch, but it's also about the interactions of the fans with that TV show and it's also about the actors who played the various characters, and it tackles not just the classic original Star Trek but also some of the other iterations, with some of the things that show up. It does it with casting, it does it with storytelling, it does it with some of the actual plot devices that happen, and so it names the tropes, it subverts them or it leans into them, but it does itself consciously and with a wink, which is very it's. It's delightful. It's delightful. One of the things that it gets it's that it's very gentle with fans and fandom in ways that other spoofs, like Spaceballs for instance, are not Right. So I mean, we hear Jason say it's just a TV show, get over it. But it's not, it's real, and because these kids love it so much, they save the universe, right, and so there's a hug that it gives to fandom, which we both wondered if it would still give that hug if it were made today. Because, as you noted, even then there was gatekeeping and today, given the interconnectedness of the world and the immediacy of our communication, that gatekeeping and faction creation is only more so and is only exacerbated and more vitriolic.
Speaker 1:I spent some significant time talking about the casting of Sigourney Weaver and what that sort of does, in sort of thinking about gender in science fiction, because of Weaver's earlier famous role as Ripley in Alien, wherein she is not hypersexualized, versus her as this Gwen, whose character is hypersexualized, and sort of the conversation that having Weaver in that role plays we also talked about. You know, I named the fact the romance between Gwen and Jason feels a little bit of a letdown in terms of the other commentary that we get from this film, like I wish that there had been more of a platonic coming together for the two of them so that we could have not force Gwen back into that thing that we saw her reject earlier. We also named that today the shipping would not be between the straight couple. Well, there would be shipping, but there would also be shipping.
Speaker 2:Well, there would have been shipping in 1999 too. They just weren't willing to talk about it Totally.
Speaker 1:Because there was in the 60s for Kirk and Spock, oh yeah, so that sort of feels like a piece that is missing. That would have absolutely been a part of it. Oh yeah, yeah, who their art is for and that while there is art that the artists make, artists makes for themselves and that that's important, there's also almost like what the artist owes the person who is moved by their art. Or maybe owed is the wrong way, but sort of the opportunity to kind of lean into that and and and and do good and and move other people. That we see happen, sort of in a specific moment for Alan Rickman's character, alex, when someone who idolized his TV show character is dying and you brought in Bismarck Key as an example of what that can look like.
Speaker 2:I remember being like dude you are so sweet, I love you. When he was like I'll play that all day long. People want to hear it. I want to play it, Just recognizing that you have brought joy and that joy is something that you can continue to provide, even if you're tired of the song.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then where we finally landed, was you noting the ways in which our dad appreciated our movie makers taking the science fiction seriously, and sort of the questions that then spin out the story? So this is a society that has no concept of lying or even pretend that is radically truthful. And what happens then? How do they receive fiction? And that led us to a conversation that we can't finish about metaphor and a specific TNG episode, shaka when the Walls Fell, but also just the idea that, like we can't get away from metaphor, which I could talk about for another three hours to be honest, but I won't, but I won't. Did I forget anything? We have like two minutes, the only thing is.
Speaker 2:I'm just bringing in how there's layers of the casting of Sigourney Weaver as Gwen, that kind of harken back to Nichelle Nichols as Uhura and the difficult position that marginalized actors find themselves in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cool. So thanks for coming with me on this Galaxy Quest. Where are we going with our deep thoughts next week?
Speaker 2:Los Angeles, I'm going to be bringing you my deep thoughts about Pretty Woman.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, well, I look forward to hearing about them. All right, I'll see you then At our Patreon there's a link in the show notes. Or leave a positive review so others can find us and, of course, share the show with your people. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin MacLeod from Incompetechcom. Find full music credits in the show notes. Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't you know what's in your head?