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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Deep Thoughts about Groundhog Day
Watch out for that first step, it’s a doozy!
This week, the 1993 film Groundhog Day is the vehicle for Emily to talk about the three most taboo subjects: religion, politics, and money. Not only is Bill Murray’s Phil Connors a favorite of scholars and commentators who talk about religion and film, he also has some interesting lessons to teach us about working for political change against huge obstacles. (Also, Emily’s a money nerd, and the truth is everything can be about money–especially when you’ve written a mini-viral article for Fast Company about it.) The Guy sisters hypothesize that part of what makes the movie successful and noteworthy to multiple religious faith traditions is the way in which the filmmakers took their craft seriously (though not themselves), from the precision of filming all of the repeat moments on the same day to the elegance of Phil’s Groundhog-Day-acquired artistic skills being music and ice sculpting: creative pursuits whose products are inherently ephemeral.
Deep Thoughts is great for the car, but don’t drive angry!
Mentioned in this episode:
https://rabbionanarrowbridge.blogspot.com/2016/10/groundhog-day-all-over-again-kol-nidrei.html
https://www.insidehook.com/film/strange-religious-afterlife-groundhog-day
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
It's interesting that the art that he commits to is music and ice sculptures, both of which are ephemeral because, you know, he can't write a novel Right.
Speaker 3:What others might deem stupid shit. You know matters, you know it's worth talking and thinking about, and so do we. We're sisters, tracy and Emily, collectively known as the Guy Girls. So do we? We're sisters, tracy and Emily, collectively known as the Guy Girls. Every week, we take turns re-watching, researching and reconsidering beloved media and sharing what we learn. Come overthink with us and if you get value from the show, please consider supporting us. You can become a patron on Patreon or send us a one-time tip through Ko-fi. Both links are in the show notes and thanks.
Speaker 1:I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I will be discussing the 1993 classic comedy Groundhog Day with my sister, Tracy Guy-Decker, and with you. Let's dive in. All right, Tracy, I know you've seen this film. I think it's likely we saw it together in the theater. It does seem likely, doesn't it? But I don't recall for sure. Me neither Tell me what you remember about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I loved this film.
Speaker 3:I really loved it. There's a lot of it in my head Like it. It is definitely furniture of the mind, so I actually don't want to share all the things I remember. I just I, I loved it. I loved it. It was like I love Bill Murray because of Ghostbusters Although our Ghostbusters episode made me really rethink that and because of this movie. I just I loved him in this movie and I loved the way that he I'm not sure I saw it this way, like in 93, I was what like 17.
Speaker 3:Like I don't think I saw it this way in 93, but I love the idea of sort of what kind of growth, like emotional, psychological growth, we can get when forced to like think about and do the same thing over and over again. Like how do we stop it from being actually doing the same thing over and over again? And it's changing yourself, right, and like that idea, like I just love it so much, which is not something I got in 1993. I just was charmed by it, you know. But there's definitely moments like vignettes that flash in my head, like of the groundhog on his lap Don't drive angry and the Ned the insurance salesman and the pothole that he steps in. It's a doozy. Like there's things just like pop up, like like I'm I'm having like pop up video right now in my head. So what's happening last from the past? So so yeah, there's a lot in there, and that's not what we're here to talk about. Why are we here? Why are we talking about Groundhog Day?
Speaker 1:So there's two reasons we're talking about this. The first is last year I wrote a piece that went semi-viral for one of my clients, fast Company, about the hidden money lessons in Groundhog Day. We published it right in time for February 2nd and people loved it, and it's the kind of overthinking that I do and tying some of these lessons that Bill Murray's Phil Connors learns in the story to financial behavior. So it's been in my head since then. So that's one reason for it. The other reason I wanted to talk about it is because there are three different religious traditions that claim this movie as their own Judaism, buddhism and Jesuit Christianity Really, yes, uh, judaism, buddhism and jesuit christianity really yes, to the point where in 2003, there was this film series about religion in films and the movies were all of like the, the capital F film that you think of, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Groundhog Day. And actually so many, so many people who were presenting wanted to put Groundhog Day that there was a squabble over who got to write up the, the reason for it in the in the pamphlet, wow. So this mainstream, very successful comedy really resonates with several religious teachings and belief systems. I, because I'm Jewish, see it as a very Jewish movie. Because I'm Jewish, see it as a very Jewish movie, and the two writers of the movie, danny Rubin and Harold Ramis Harold Ramis who played Egon, both of whom, danny Rubin, is still alive, but Harold Ramis was Jewish, although he was married to a woman who was Buddhist and he referred to himself as a Buddhist.
Speaker 3:You know, there's like a whole category, like, of jewish buddhists, the juboos, like, like. There's enough of them that we needed a name.
Speaker 1:So yeah, buddhish. Okay, yeah, based on the relatively little I know about buddhism, I can see that in there as well, and I can comprehend how a Christian could look at this movie and see it as a similar sort of echo of Christian theology. But I love that we get this very philosophical and spiritual. Look at what it means to be alive in a time loop movie. Yeah, a silly time loop movie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah With Bill Murray, and Don't Drive Angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I just I like you, I've always loved this movie. I feel a very weird affinity to Groundhog Day the holiday because it's two days before my birthday, right the holiday because it's two days before my birthday, right, and I have. Also, I don't I've never liked having a winter birthday, but and it's partially because I don't like winter I get the seasonal affective disorder and all of that. But I've always felt like, okay, I can make it to my birthday and then at that point the worst that I get is six more weeks of winter. I can do it. So Groundhog Day was also like a way for me to be like, all right, I can make it. So those are the reasons why I wanted to bring it to our conversation today.
Speaker 3:Cool, All right. Well, I'm looking forward to the analysis, but first, like remind me of the plot.
Speaker 1:So I think I'll actually be concise this time Because it really is only one day. We meet Bill Murray's Phil Connors. He is a weatherman at a Pittsburgh news station who is going to Punxsutawney, pennsylvania, which is a real place, although it was not filmed there. It was filmed in a small town in Illinois, punxsutawney, pennsylvania, for the fourth time to cover the Groundhog Day event. There is a groundhog in Punxsutawney named Punxsutawney Phil. That's why Phil Connors, he shares something with the groundhog. He has a new producer named Rita who is played by Andy McDowell, and the cameraman is Larry, played by Chris Elliott.
Speaker 1:Phil is not a very nice person. It is very clear that he is sarcastic, rude, grumpy, egotistical, domineering, just not a great person. He kind of flirts with Andy McDowell's Rita a little bit and it's clear that she is not interested, but a little too kindly to really shut him down. They get to Punxsutawney. He refuses to stay in the hotel because he hates the hotel. He's been there three times before and Rita says good, you're not staying here, You're at a bed and breakfast down the hotel. He's been there three times before and Rita says good, you're not staying here, you're at a bed and breakfast down the street. That is all happening on February 1st, we see all of February 2nd. He wakes up at 6 am when the alarm in the bed and breakfast goes off playing the local radio station. It's Sonny and Cher's I've Got you, babe, and then two early morning DJs making jokes about the fact that it's Groundhog Day. He has a couple of interactions with people in the Bed and Breakfast, including Mrs Lancaster who works there. He gets to Gobbler's Knob, which is again, that's real, although it's set up differently in the film than it is in the real world where the Groundhog Day celebration takes place. He does his reporting.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile there is this expected blizzard to come through and he has made it clear no, it's not going to affect us, it's going to go to Altoona. So as soon as they are done he's like let's pack it up. We're getting back to Pittsburgh, but the roads are closed because it is snowing so much. So they have to turn around and come back to Punxsutawney where it is not yet snowing. It's, it's snowing where it's closed off the um, the highway.
Speaker 1:So he goes back to sleep um in the bed and breakfast and when he wakes up the next morning it's February 2nd again, and so the first day he goes through the whole thing really confused and acting a little weird, but just basically thinking like, okay, there's gotta be something. I don't know, I don't know what's going on. And we see him going to bed that night on the phone with someone like saying like, can you guarantee that we're going to do this, can we do that? And he's like, well, I don't know what if there is no tomorrow, there wasn't one today, which is a great line. He has a pencil that he snaps and puts it on his bedside table to test. It Wakes up again February 2nd pencil is whole, whole thing's happening again. So he tells Rita, there's something wrong with me. And she says, well, you know, you should get your head examined. So he goes to a doctor who says like, well, everything looks fine, but if you want an MRI you'd have to go to Pittsburgh. And he's like I can't go to Pittsburgh. And so the doctor says, well, why don't you go see a psychiatrist? So he goes to see a psychiatrist who is really not equipped to help him and the psychiatrist says, well, I think we should continue talking. Why don't you come back tomorrow? Which same problem.
Speaker 1:And that night he is at local bowling alley drinking with two of the locals, gus and oh, I can't remember Gus's friend's name and Gus says to him like you seem like a glass half empty kind of guy, you know why don't you look on the bright side? And so the two locals are very, very drunk. And so Phil drives their car and realizes like wait a minute, if there's no tomorrow, there's no consequences. So he runs over a mailbox like, gets into a police chase, drives on the train tracks, nearly gets him killed, ends up in jail. And he wakes up again the next morning it's February 2nd and no one's come looking for him. So apparently there are no consequences. And no one's come looking for him. So apparently there are no consequences.
Speaker 1:So he starts doing all kinds of stuff. He asks an attractive young woman what her name is, what high school she went to and who her 12th grade English teacher was. So the next day he can pretend that he went to school with her and seduce her. He uses his knowledge of what happens to steal money out of a Brink security truck. He eats like there's this great scene of him binging all this food on a table. So it basically is like there is nothing I can't do.
Speaker 1:And then he sets his sights on because he has always had a little crush on Rita, sets his sights on trying to seduce her, and so we see a montage of him over and over and over again trying to get in her good graces. So he learns what her favorite drink is. He learns that she went to college for French poetry and memorizes a French poem. He finds out what she wants from a man and says that that's what he is Like. She says she wants marriage and kids, and so he pretends that that's what he wants too. And he ends up having one almost perfect day and she comes back to his room with him and they're kissing and she's like I need to go now. And he starts pressuring her because he knows if it doesn't happen now, it never will, or at least he's going to have to do all this work again. And she ends up slapping him and is really disgusted and horrified by him.
Speaker 1:We then see a montage of her slapping him over and over and over again, and it's at that point that he kind of loses hope. And so we see him the don't drive angry thing he's like you know, this is never going to end unless I take the groundhog out. So he steals a truck that has the groundhog in it and drives it over a cliff. He wakes up the next day. He takes a toaster into the tub with him, wakes up the next day, jumps off a building, wakes up the next day. So that happens over and over again. And then we see him come to Rita and say, like I think I'm a God, and she's like, uh no, 12 years of Catholic school, I can tell you you're not God. He's like I'm not God, I'm a God. I don't know, maybe.
Speaker 3:I might be.
Speaker 1:And so he goes, tries to prove it to her by showing how much he knows about everyone in the town, and she is a little freaked out. But she's like, okay, I'm going to keep an eye on you all day because you see what's going on. And so at the end of that day they are in his room at midnight. She thinks like, oh, I thought you were going to disappear, I was going to disappear. And he's like, no, no, no, it doesn't happen until 6 am. So he gets six hours into February 3rd. She stays, like you know, at midnight. She stays, like you know, at midnight. He says like you don't have to stay if you don't want to, but if you know, if you want to, you may. And we see several hours later she's fallen asleep. She's kind of in that like half asleep, half awake, kind of murmuring like I'm not asleep, I'm not tired. And he tells her that he doesn't deserve someone who is as kind and good as she is. But if ever he had a chance to be with her, he would love her for the rest of his life. And she doesn't really hear it. She says did you say something?
Speaker 1:And then he wakes up alone in the room and that's kind of a turning point for him. He starts changing the way he interacts with the world. It starts with there is a homeless man that he has, like um, walked past and not given money to over and over and over again. And we see him first give him money and then we see later he is at a hospital. He brought the old man in who had died and um, the uh, the nurse like sometimes just die and he's like not today. And so we see him trying again and again to save his life. There's a piano teacher nearby and he bribes her with $1,000 to kick out her current students so he can learn piano. He learns ice sculpting. He saves, like a bunch of different people from, from small everyday perils.
Speaker 1:Uh, there's a little boy who falls out of a tree and, interestingly, the first time I ever noticed this, when he's at the hospital with the old man the little boy's in the background, with his leg broken, I was like I never realized that before. Um, he saves a little boy. He changes attire for three little ladies who get a flat. The mayor is choking on a piece of steak and he gives him the Heimlich maneuver. Just basically is being a helpful man about town In the evening there's a party. Rita all day has been trying to figure out where he is and he's at the party playing piano and she is so impressed with everything he's done. And as part of the party they have a bachelor auction. So one of the residents of the town pushes him forward to be the first bachelor and there's a bidding war and then Rita wins it by emptying out her wallet and I think it's $339.88.
Speaker 3:It's just like holding her checkbook up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so they go off and have like a date. Basically he does like a snow sculpture of her face and you know he is just talking to her, you know, without an agenda, he's just getting to know her. It seems like a lovely day and he expects to wake up alone again on February 2nd, alone again on February 2nd. Well, the next morning he wakes up it's Sonny and Cher again, but a different part of the song. And Rita reaches over him and turns off the alarm clock, saying it's too early, and he's like something's different. So he asked her what are you doing here? She said well, you said stay, so I stayed and I bought you, like I bought you in the auction.
Speaker 1:And she's also and I really appreciate this the film. She's like where was this energy last night? I could have used it so to make it clear that all they did was sleep. And so they head out. He says some things that I think would be freaky to poor Rita. He says let's live here, we'll rent first. But that is the happy ending of the film. Cool, there's so much good stuff in here.
Speaker 3:All right, so where do we start?
Speaker 1:So let's talk about Phil's kind of moral arc. Yeah, because I actually I was thinking a lot about what we said about Billy Crystal's Harry from when Harry met Sally. Now, apparently they floated several different actors. Actually, tom Hanks was one of the ones that they thought about doing, but he was too nice. Yeah, he's too nice. Yeah.
Speaker 1:There were a couple others, I'm not blanking on who, but they wanted someone who had an edge who you could not. It was possible to not like and apparently during filming, when Harold Ramis would be trying to let Bill Murray know what he should be doing in this scene, he'd just be like no, no, no, Good Phil or bad Phil.
Speaker 3:Which am I today. That's what Bill.
Speaker 1:Murray would say yeah, and I think that it's really.
Speaker 1:I think what's important about his, his moral arc, is that, like Harry, he goes from thinking of the people around him as non-player characters to recognizing that they are full and complete human beings.
Speaker 1:And it is amazing that he does that because technically they are so, because, like a video game, he responds over and over again and nothing happens to the other people. Right, they do the same thing every single time. So like that is, I think really it's tremendous. It's a tremendous thing that allows us to see that he recognizes how egotistical and self-centered he was even before he got stuck in the time loop, because he is doing something that would be very hard to do when you know that nothing matters to the people around you, especially that last kind of perfect day that he has. So he has a very good day with Rita. When he starts off saying like I think I'm a God and like I can prove to you by everything, at the end of that day she disappears and it's because he's still thinking of himself. He's still thinking of like this is what I am, rather than thinking about like what can I do to make your life better?
Speaker 3:like, what's coming up for me, as we're talking about this film and about, like the moral arc and your point that like they are non-player characters, but what's coming up for me is sort of the idea that, like groundhog day forced him to like, no, look at it. He's like, yeah, I'm looking at, no, look at it. No, look at them. Like and it's not. And so even in the like I'm a God, like I'm looking at them, I know where they're going to be, but he's not actually looking at them. Right, and that was the point that you made about Harry in when Harry Met Sally is that he wasn't actually like worthy to be our love interest, to be Sally's love interest, until he started actually seeing her as a full human being and he got there through his own pain to a certain extent, and I think that, like so there's a little bit of that here, but you know the pain, but also just frigging stick-to-itiveness of this time loop.
Speaker 1:Well, and that gets to something that I think is very important, especially we are recording this 10 days before the inauguration, which is that early on. Phil has an agenda. So you know he's doing things, no consequences. And so, like he asks her name is Nancy, this attractive young woman, what her name is, her high school and 12th grade English teacher. Because you know, if you put in the quarters, in the machine over here, sex will come out over there, right, right, it's an agenda, completely transactional, yes and so, and he does that with you know, you know figuring out when the Briggs securities truck would allow him to steal money. He does that with like, whatever it is to cut off. Mrs Lancaster, who is the manager of the bed and breakfast, asks him chit-chat questions that he's really uncomfortable with, like, just not uncomfortable with, he doesn't like, and so he knows what she's going to say. So he preempts it and amuses himself by doing that instead of, you know, actually interacting with this person. And so he tries to bring that sort of transactional nature, that agenda, to seducing Rita. And it doesn't work and it's in part because of who Rita is, and that's when he gets, when like, over and over and over again. He's trying, he's putting all this work in and he's not getting the sex out and he gets depressed and starts killing himself.
Speaker 1:And the reason why I think this is so important at this particular moment in time is because I uh, I had this realization last year or the year before, where I have been pretty politically active since I was a late teenager. Now, I mean, I'm not going to say I would not call myself an activist, but I have voted without fail in every election that I was eligible for. I actually, even before the first Trump presidency, made calls to my representatives. I do stuff. I consider it part of my civic duty to know what's going on in my country and in my locality. I try to do stuff and it feels like the world has gotten worse in the time that I've done that I truly believe in feels like the world has gotten worse in the time that I've done that. You know, I truly believe in it, and the world has gotten worse. And I mentioned this to my therapist and she pointed out she had read something or seen something talking about when the enormous, gorgeous cathedrals in Europe were being built. The people who started building them knew that it was going to take a hundred years and that their children's children might not see it done. But that didn't mean they stopped. And that resonated with me because I'm a writer, I'm a writer and so while I do write because I want to get published, when I am focused on writing to publish, I'm miserable, whereas if I just write for the joy of it, it is fulfilling and meaningful and wonderful.
Speaker 1:And that allowed me to kind of remember, like you know, I'm not politically active because it's going to. You know, if I put the quarters in the uh, the the better legislation comes out. What, what a wonderful world it would be if that's how it worked. I do it because it fulfills something in me, it feels good, I respect myself for doing it, and so the doing, it is the meaning.
Speaker 1:The meaning is in the action, and that is what Phil learns, because at a certain point you can say, like, what he does is useless, quote, unquote, because it all resets again the next day. But that doesn't matter, because there's meaning in doing it, there is self-respect, there's joy, there is, you know, just fulfillment in learning the piano, in helping these three little old ladies who are a little overwhelmed, with the flat tire, in making sure that the mayor doesn't choke on a piece of beef in trying to show kindness and save the homeless man, even if he is doomed. In all of those actions, there is meaning whether or not it's still there the next day for each of these people or not it's still there the next day for each of these people.
Speaker 3:I think I think that's all right. I completely agree and I think the thing that I like a lot, that I think I named at the beginning too, like the, the reason that Rita doesn't disappear at the end of the movie, is because ultimately now he has changed Right. So, like he's done all this work which in the time loop doesn't actually change the world, at least not in any lasting way, but it has changed him and that's what interrupts the constant resetting, that's what interrupts the loop and I think that's a significant and important philosophical like. I see how this is Jewish right, Like the fundamentals of Musar, like Jewish ethics, is like we change our behavior to change our hearts and our souls. That's what Phil does hearts and our souls.
Speaker 1:That's what Phil does. There is a very interesting sermon that I think Colney Dre sermon that I will link in the show notes, from a rabbi, I think in England, talking about this movie and comparing it to Jonah. Actually, so, listeners, the story of Jonah, you probably remember Jonah being eaten by the whale or the giant fish. But once he's he, that happens because he does not want to be a prophet. When he finally accepts the, the, the fact that he has to do this, he goes to please Nineveh I thought it was. Nineveh Goes to Nineveh saying like God's going to destroy Nineveh unless you change your ways. And they do, and then he's pissed off. Then he's pissed off because like, look, I came all this way and you didn't destroy them.
Speaker 3:Well, it even says, like I knew you were merciful. That's why I didn't want to come to Nineveh in the first place.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so there's this very interesting comparison, saying like very interesting comparison, saying like where the rabbi is basically talking about how phil has a similar kind of reaction, like it's going to reset anyway, so why do I even bother? But once he like embraces his role, he is allowed to move forward and I find that just lovely and fascinating. The other aspect of it and this is what it shares with Buddhism that I see as very Jewish is in Judaism we do a lot of repetition, so we have special prayers that we repeat every week on shabbat.
Speaker 1:We have the prayers that repeat every year on um for the more orthodox among us, there are prayers that happen every day multiple times a day, yeah, and, and then we also do like we also consider ourselves to be time bound in a way that is, specifically during the Passover Seder. We talk about when we were there as if, as if.
Speaker 3:As if we were there.
Speaker 1:And as if it is happening again and again, and again, and so one of the things that I really like about this aspect of our faith is that we always get another chance to try again. We always have another opportunity. So the year that we moved here to Milwaukee, passover is my favorite holiday and I was overwhelmed and didn't know how to put together anything, and my kids were five and two at the time and I felt like I'm being a bad Jew, a bad mother, by not celebrating Passover with them. Opportunity the next year and like those like stack onto each other and any one might be forgettable, but they all together create, create this, this kind of mosaic of, of, of repetition, and so sometimes I feel it Like I feel the bracha when I say it, and sometimes I just say it and it doesn't feel like anything.
Speaker 3:It's meaningful. Bracha means blessing.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's meaningful because I do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so that is, I think, a lot of what Jewish scholars and just see the that resonates with them from this film. But it also is a an important echo of um buddhist ideas of the cyclical nature of the world and sansara which is about I'm not not a scholar of this, but it's, it's the the cycle of birth, life, death, rebirth, over and over again, and then in Buddhism the idea is that life is suffering and the way that we escape sansara is try to relieve suffering, which we see Phil do, and he does it without any agenda, without any kind of transactional idea, without any agenda, without any kind of transactional idea. I mean, there is a very funny moment when he catches the kid falling out of the tree and saves him from a broken leg. You see him going. What do you say? What do you say? You never say thank you. You never say thank you. I'll see you tomorrow, maybe. So what I also appreciate, like Phil's allowed to be human.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know he is a much better man, but he is still a little annoyed. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm curious to hear can you walk me through? Or maybe you can't, but can you walk me through? Like, what's the Christian like claim to this movie?
Speaker 1:That I have trouble with. I will tell you the little bitet Christmas Carol.
Speaker 3:Muppet Christmas.
Speaker 1:Carol, like to die to yourself in a much more metaphorical rather than literal way, like Ebenezer Scrooge literally dies to himself, and I mean Phil literally does when he is dying by suicide over and over again. But that does not cause him to die to himself, like he's still saying, like I think, I'm god and it's once he realizes he needs to focus outward that he is able to like, escape this kind of purgatory and and reach his reward.
Speaker 3:Okay, that would be my guess I mean there's certainly like the good works, like like from um scroogege to like make the world better, like the power that you have with good works to make. Okay, All right Cool.
Speaker 1:And again, one of the one of the things that I appreciate about how this film shows this is that it's Phil has that perfect day because he is present in the moment. In that perfect day, he's not trying to get to February 3rd. That's Buddhist, yes, and it's also, I feel like. I feel like it's also Jewish, because we do mitzvot. It's like good deeds not to get something, but because they are mitzvot.
Speaker 3:I mean God told us to they're commandments.
Speaker 1:Yes, but not doing them is not something that's going to.
Speaker 3:Depends on who you ask.
Speaker 1:Well, tekin olam I. I mean, that is we.
Speaker 3:We do that because it's so, because of not to get anything from it tikkun olam listeners means repair of the world and it it comes from a, an old idea that it's something fundamental, sort of shattered when, when God was creating the world. And now it's our job to like, find those pieces and put them back together. And we do that by doing good deeds and putting good out into the world. And and and repair the world is, you know, fairly straightforward. Yeah, I mean we don't do it for some sort of reward in the like kind of way, like popularized version that sometimes folks will talk about. Reward in terms of like in the afterlife or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it also relates to Pirkei Avot, which is like the teachings of our fathers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's like a long book and that's one sentence in it, okay.
Speaker 1:My favorite part of the Pirkei Avot, which is that you are not obligated to complete the work, but neither shall you desist from it or neither may you desist from it. Right.
Speaker 1:And that's something I shared with a friend recently on social media. She has been very locally active in politics, running for office and things like that in a very, very conservative area, and just getting pummeled and feeling like not knowing if she's doing the right thing by deciding to step back from it thing by deciding to step back from it. And so I shared that that line with her because I find that very helpful, because it's it reminds us that you know, everything does not rely on us, but we can do what we can do. Right.
Speaker 1:And, as I mentioned at the top of this, the, the I think really helpful to look to like this movie and the this idea in the coming years. As you know it's, there's some really scary shit coming down the pike. Yeah, because it is so easy to say it. Well, we're not going to fix it, so might as well give up and have the in-between moments that Phil does where he's like I just want out of this, but that is no path forward. Right.
Speaker 1:And recognizing this might not do anything, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
Speaker 3:Right, right. Bryan Stevenson said that hope is the enemy of injustice.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I in fact think that we have a responsibility to hope. Yeah. And this is one of the things that I wrote in the Fast Company article. Part of what's tough about the situation that Phil finds himself in is that there is no tomorrow, and so that means that he can't plan for tomorrow, he can't make things better for his future life, because he's sitting in this moment, right now, and in my day job as a financial writer, I have had people say to me like I don't see the point in saving for retirement because climate change is going to negate anything, you know?
Speaker 1:uh like, if we've got a fascist government, why should I be worried about social security? And my feeling is like, well, the forces of chaos and evil have already won if we decide that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if we step away, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so live in the moment but hope for and plan for a better future. Sure and so. And the Phil learning how to play the piano is actually a really good example of that, Because there is very little he can carry from one day to the next right?
Speaker 3:I mean, there is all knowledge just in his head all he can carry for one day to the next.
Speaker 1:So, like he, it's interesting that the the art that he commits to is music and ice sculptures, both of which are ephemeral. Because you know he can't write a novel, right? You know he can't paint a painting.
Speaker 3:Not have it stick around, yeah.
Speaker 1:Not have it stick around, but he finds a way to invest in his future.
Speaker 3:Right, even in a single day. Yeah, that's really nice, it's made to be ephemeral, that's really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really nice. Is made to be ephemeral, that's really nice. That I feel like is is shows a great way of committing to self care. Yeah, and is is just, it's lovely. And he gets to he his. His piano teacher is so funny because he tells her every day I've never had a lesson before today, which is true, and so we see her like so proud of him playing. Like that's my student. He's clearly an expert.
Speaker 3:I'd love to hear more about the Fast Company article or like the conclusions that you drew in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the things I talk about is live in the moment but work for a better future, and so he learns to do that, as I mentioned with the ice sculpting and music. But to apply this to our finances I was talking about, we tend to have like binary thinking, where it's either we either think like retirement's never going to happen, so I'm going to live like there's no tomorrow, or I'm I'm despairing, like I'm worried, so I'm not going to do anything, so, which is when he he continues to kill himself, so like we avoid spending any money for fear of an uncertain future.
Speaker 3:So we act as if we can spend money now or we can spend money later, and we have to choose between the two.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, but you need to find a way to do both, like live in the moment and plan and hope for a better future. The other moment, so early on, I think on his third iteration, he's wondering like why couldn't it have been this day? When I was in the Virgin Islands, I met a girl. We ate lobster, we made love, and so he like laments being stuck in western Pennsylvania in February which is kind of reasonable.
Speaker 3:It's legit yeah.
Speaker 1:But then he learns to embrace where he is. Uh he is like make the most of where you are, because you can't change the fact that you are where you are. Right, right, and so in terms of, like, finances and career and stuff like that, you know we are often stuck somewhere. We didn't choose dead end job location, we didn't choose difficult family situation, but if you find what's good in where you are, you're going to be much happier and it's not going to get you out of there any faster. But neither is moping about it, right, sure, and then the last thing that I talk about is the only thing you have control over is yourself.
Speaker 1:And then the last thing that I talk about is the only thing you have control over is yourself. And so, like, phil is trying to control other things, starting with, like, on February 1, ways that he can respond to what she might do or say, and then comes to realize that, no, I am the only one I can control. And so, in terms of finances, people will put the agency on other things, agency on their on other things, like they'll be mad about the inheritance that, uh, you know didn't come through, or mad that the stock market died at the wrong time, or like complain about you know, don't make enough money and all you can change is yourself, um, and so you need to make plans and do things based on who you are and what you can do, rather than putting trying to control other people or putting your your hopes on what other people will do cool nice, thank you.
Speaker 3:So does this? Does this film pass the Bechdel test? Sort of yes, um, there are actually there are a number of named female characters yes, so rita and doris, who works at the diner, talk to each other.
Speaker 1:At one point rita tells her these sticky buns are to die for, okay so they talk about the sticky buns yeah. And then, at another point, while phil is trying to prove to her that he knows everything, he's like like, oh, this is Doris. She da-da-da-da and Doris. Oh yeah, that's right to her, as do a couple of other women in the diner. And then the three little old ladies with the flat tire. I know that they have names, but it's one of those like it's like Phil knows their name.
Speaker 3:Okay, I don't know if I do, and they talk to each other about something besides Phil.
Speaker 1:Yes, they talk about like the flat tire, and then when he starts jacking it up, they're like, oh, it's an earthquake. No, it's not an earthquake. So they're talking to each other about the circumstances there.
Speaker 3:Okay, cool. So, and just a reminder, listeners the Bechdel test from Alison Bechdel from her zine like to watch out for. The questions are are there at least two female characters? Do they both have names? Do they talk to each other about something other than a boy or man? Cool, okay. Anything we haven't covered that you want to make sure you talk about.
Speaker 1:So there's one thing that I'm trying to figure out how I feel about Cool.
Speaker 3:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:You mentioned Ned Ryerson, played brilliantly by Stephen Tobolowsky, who is my go-to reference for insurance salespeople. Totally. He is really over the top like. Refuses to take no for an answer, like you know, ignores social cues and then ends with like watch out for that first step. It's a doozy when Phil steps in this big puddle of water icy water. So Ned is really annoying and we are not supposed to like Ned.
Speaker 1:And one of the like kindest things that we see Phil do is on that perfect day he actually buys a whole bunch of insurance from Ned. Right and Ned's like it's the best day of my life, right and Rita and Phil are able to shake Ned off. And we see him try a couple of different things to get Ned to leave him alone throughout the different days he pushes him, he punches him, he punches him, runs away from him, stuff like that. But early on, after Phil has the realization I'm going to try to make the best of this. We see him see Ned Ryerson greet him.
Speaker 1:Like Ned Ryerson, it's not over the top because Phil's very sarcastic, it's more like Ned Ryerson. Like, not like. It's not over the top because, like Phil's very sarcastic, it's, it's more like Ned Ryerson, you know like and shakes his hand, and then he grabs him and hugs him and says I don't know where you're going, but can you call in sick? As as if he's hitting on him. And it gets Ned to be like, oh, I got to go and run away on him. And it gets ned to be like, oh, I gotta go and run away. And I'm not sure how I feel about that because, on the one hand, gay panic is not a good look. On the other, in some ways, phil is using what Ned does back at him, which is like just ignoring social cues.
Speaker 3:Also a, an assumed familiarity that is inappropriate for the actual relationship.
Speaker 1:Because they went to high school together, right Like they do know each other. So, um, there's no other like homophobia in the film. There's a, there's one, one of the uh, the people that uh Phil says like oh, and there's this person. There's this person. There's a young man named, I think, kenny. He's like, uh, he collects this. He started working here when he had to leave Penn state and he's gay and he's like oh, yeah, I am, and that's just matter of fact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so. So I just kind of wanted to mention that because, um, you know, when I saw it in 1993, I thought that was hilarious, the way that, uh, phil handled Ned, and in some ways I am thinking about how you will see male allies use that kind of behavior on men who are creeping on women, which is, you know, thank you. But we do see, like Phil and Larry, played by Chris Elliott, the cameraman, are over familiar with women and we don't. We see Larry get shot down and like, obviously Phil gets shot down over and over again. So maybe it's it's, it's just recognizing, like this over familiarity is not okay, stop it. But yeah, it just it. It stood out to me and I wanted to kind of bring that up and see if you had any thoughts.
Speaker 3:I mean, one thing that occurs to me is that, like they put the gay panic on the guys with a guy who is so unlikable Mm-hmm Right, we didn't. We don't see Phil do it. Yeah, I mean, he elicits it, but we don't see him express it, certainly not as good Phil Right. And so that feels like it mitigates it a bit to me, since Ned is so unlikable, so he's not a villain. I don't think there is a villain in this film, but he's very unlikable. So, having it be him, I do think that the the kind of meaning that you just sketched out we never see over familiarity work, and in fact when it is manufactured it really doesn't work. I mean, maybe that's actually the allegory, is that the synecdoche of phil with ned is what phil's trying to do with rita when he gets slapped over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:You know the only thing that takes away from that a little bit is that this happens after he stops doing that. It's, this is part of his. Like I'm a whole new phil.
Speaker 3:Oh, interesting it's also he's doing it on purpose with phil, like he with ned. Excuse me, he's doing. This is part of his like I'm a whole new Phil. Oh, interesting, it's also he's doing it on purpose with Phil, like he with Ned. Excuse me, he's doing it on purpose with Ned. He knows how Ned will react, so maybe the whole new person knows that over. He's going to make this guy go away because it made Rita go away. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I it like. I wouldn't. I would not want to see that joke written into a 2025 remake of Groundhog Day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, or at least I'd want more nuance around it, or?
Speaker 3:commentary or something In 93, like, looking back on it, I also thought it was hilarious, by the way, and with the other things that we've just named, like I'm not offended, I guess is where I'm landing. Yeah, yeah, Like it's not a good look, but Ned's not a good look, Bing, yeah, so you know Ned's not a good look, and like in some ways it's Phil kind of like I got your number asshole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, to be fair to phil and and the film, like his perfect day, he buys a ridiculous amount of life insurance and other insurance from, uh, from ned. So like he, he is kind right someone who even to the asshole yeah yeah, yeah so cool.
Speaker 3:All right, all right.
Speaker 1:So I guess, in conclusion, it's complicated, all right, anything else before I try and reflect back to you what I heard oh, with the one thing I one of the reasons why I think this film is brilliant is that there is never any explanation for the time loop. There was originally written an explanation that that phil was cursed by an ex-girlfriend or something like that, and they decided to cut it out, and I think that that is exactly right yeah because it's it just.
Speaker 3:No, I yeah, the mystery that's part of the power of it is the mystery, right right, which, like in a recent episode we named the fact that, like george lucas forgot when he was making the prequels and like gave us this whole midichlorian exposition thing about the forest, which is like, come on, dude, just let it be.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's. The mystery is kind of like what's what's cool? Yeah, especially, I also think, not having the explanation as part of what allows us to be so beloved by these multiple faith traditions. Oh yeah, I think if he had been cursed by an ex-girlfriend, I'm not sure that it would have been like the overarching messaging and meaning would still be there, but it would be harder to embrace. In the same way, I suspect, if we had a specific named reason for the for the loop.
Speaker 1:yeah yeah uh, the other thing, you know, because we need to talk about, like how filmmakers make their decisions and things like that, I read today that, because the level of snow would change from like day to day, because you know you get the thing, yeah, several several months or weeks anyway to film this. They did all of the day, like all of the repeated moments In the same day At the same time Interesting.
Speaker 1:So when he meets Ned Ryerson, they did that Like there's five of them, I think maybe six, and they did all of them in the same day to make sure that oh wow, so he was stepping into that puddle over and over. It was like his own personal groundhog day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wowie, wow, that's cool. That's cool to know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought that was just really fascinating, the artistry of, I mean the fact that I noticed that the little boy with the broken leg, like never. I mean I've seen that movie, this movie so many times the first time I ever noticed it. Yeah, yeah. They thought it through, yeah, and then like they really did an excellent job of making sure the extras were where they're supposed to be in the.
Speaker 3:I mean, like it's just the the level of detail for a movie about time loop, it's just, I like I love when filmmakers take the craft seriously, seriously, yeah, well, especially when it's like for mainstream enjoyment, you know, or or, or, or even lowbrow enjoyment, when they're like we know. This is like taking the medium and the content seriously without taking oneself seriously is something that the Guy sisters tend to be drawn to, definitely. Yeah, all right. So, emily, congratulations you. With this single episode, have broken all of the conventional taboos and talked about religion, politics and money. Have broken all of the conventional taboos and talked about religion, politics and money.
Speaker 3:Mazel tov my sister Mazel tov this is why I don't get invited to dinner parties. So religion Groundhog Day is claimed by multiple faith traditions as being allegorical and somehow like, resonant and and important for understanding their theology, notably Judaism, buddhism and at least some forms of Christianity. You named Jesuit when we first started talking, so, and this, these two Jewish sisters are the least clear on how it's Christian. So so, listeners, if you want to like, write in and like, let us know, like, love to hear it, cause we're we're, we're, uh, we're driving blind here.
Speaker 1:I mean not totally blind.
Speaker 3:But, like you know, we're talking like I don't know, like 20, a hundred or 2,200 here. It's just, that's definitely not 2020.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 3:I did need Erica to define the idea of self, for me recently, right, but the ways in which it is Jewish and Buddhist is sort of the Jewish, like I named Musar in particular, which is Jewish ethics, which is a thousand-year-old discipline that has us change our behavior in order to change our heart and our souls, and so Groundhog Day definitely shows us that. And we also see that he gets out of the loop when his reason for behaving stops being himself. So that also feels really sort of being himself. So that also feels really sort of spiritual, theological, in terms of Buddhist resonance. We see again sort of his move to alleviate suffering is what gets him out of the loop, and also sort of the focus on the now feels both Jewish and Buddhist and the recognition that one has to change oneself because one can't change the world. Also both Jewish and Buddhist and maybe Christian, I don't know. I've studied a tiny tiny bit Anyway. So that was religion, politics. We talked about the fact that, put as succinctly as Bryan Stevenson can, who is a very succinct and beautifully elegant speaker, hope is the enemy of injustice. We even see how it leads to nihilism, like nothing he does matters, in a very sort of literal sense, if what we mean by matters is get out of the loop, and yet the sort of fundamental thesis of the story is that it actually does matter, even if it doesn't get him out of the loop. Those are not the same thing. And so your point in terms of politics, you used the very succinct and beautifully elegant phrase from Pierre K Avot, the Ethics of the Fathers, which is in book two, that says you are not obligated to complete the work, but neither may you desist from it. And so that sort of idea that we, or that's that idea that we do what we can even if it's not going to be done, which is so also like, exactly summed up in the cathedral builders of medieval and Renaissance, renaissance medieval Europe, who would, you know, know that it would take a hundred years to finish the thing that they were breaking ground on, and they did it anyway because they were not uh, you know, they were not free to desist and the and it was still worth doing so. Okay, so that was religion and politics, and religion and politics.
Speaker 3:And then we talked about money, because you wrote this semi-viral article for Fast Company about some of the money lessons that come out of Groundhog Day, which include, like finding a balance between sort of living in the now and planning and hoping for the future, like you're allowed to spend now, but you also need to save. So find a way to get a balance with your income. And there were others that let me see. There was um, you can only control yourself. You can only control yourself. So, like, don't like, sit around moping about what the stock market is doing, figuring out what you can do. And there was a third. What was your third? Make the most of where you are. Right, it doesn't matter that you're in Punxsutawney and not in the Virgin Islands, like Punxsutawney will give back what you put into it. So you make the most of where you are. We talked very briefly about gender.
Speaker 3:This movie does pass the Bechdel test and then we spent a little bit of time sort of thinking through a moment when, when Phil is actually kind of at the end, when he does the best day, that actually gets him out of the loop. He, no, sorry, yeah. When he does the best day, he, he, he buys a bunch of insurance from Ned. But in an earlier iteration, after he's sort of decided to be a better guy and make the most of it, he bypasses Ned Ryerson, this really obnoxious insurance salesman who we went to high school with, by being over familiar with him and sort of making a pass at him that makes Ned run away. And so we spent a little time sort of talking that through and like it's not a good look. Like leaning on gay panic is not a good look.
Speaker 3:The movie makers put that bad look on a bad guy, or at least a unlikable guy, and so sort of thinking through, like in the meta, like what messages are we getting for that?
Speaker 3:And I think we landed on it's complicated and for 1993, like it feels like actually, you know if not progressive thing in thinking through the artistry and the gravitas with which the filmmakers took their task, not their subject, but their task, insofar as to make sure that the snow and the environment was the same for each of the kind of loops.
Speaker 3:They filmed all of the Ned Ryerson outdoor parking lot scenes on the same day to make sure that the external stuff was the same. And insofar as they took such great pains to make sure the extras weren't exactly the right spot. To like, on the day one of the days he doesn't save the boy who falls out of the tree, we see him in the background with his leg broken and those sorts of like echoes throughout the movie, so that it does have like a really rich and comprehensive something that we both tend to be really drawn to, that really yields beautiful product and also can move medium along, move media along and like lead to new and unexpected and unconventional outputs. And I see that you think I forgot something and you need to add it, so let me hear it.
Speaker 1:It's not that I think you forgot. Something I'm realizing that is what Phil is doing on his last day is he is taking his craft seriously. We even see that. We see his broadcast several times and they tend to be like phoned in sort of perfunctory, yeah, functory or or just nasty, and he really like he, he talks about, uh, like he brings in checkoff and and you know, like talks about what, what winter is, and like, and everyone says like that was beautiful. And so he is taking the craft seriously, but not himself, because he knows he's going to do it again tomorrow. I love it.
Speaker 1:So, and the one other thing I wanted to mention that we talked about is what he builds for himself is he realizes. Now, part of this is at one point Rita says she'd want a guy who plays an instrument, so like he's interested in music, in part because it'll get the girl, but he chooses music and ice sculpting as things to learn because he can hold on to it from one day to the next and because they are both kind of ephemeral arts, and I love that. There are things that cannot be taken from you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, right, beautiful, okay. The one other thing I did I also want to lift back up in my kind of recap is that we named that Phil is sort of similar to Harry from when Harry met Sally, and so in this, as far as the story arc, that, like harry doesn't become a guy who's worthy of sally's love and our, the viewer's, kind of affection, like to be our hero, until he starts realizing that other people are fully formed human beings and specifically, that women are not just vaginas with legs. And phil goes through a similar transformation, except in some ways his is even more noteworthy because, as you put it, harry and Phil both win, if you will. They both kind of grow when they stop treating other people as non-player characters in the role-playing game. But the truth is that for Phil they are non-player characters because they do the exact same thing every single time. So his being able to fully see them is in some ways even more admirable or a bigger shift than with Harry and when Harry met Sally Cool, all right.
Speaker 3:So next time, em, yeah, you're bringing something to me. Next time I am bringing you my big thoughts, my deep thoughts about big, the tom hanks movie oh, that's amazing so, yeah, I'm looking forward to watching it again.
Speaker 3:It's been a long. I haven't seen it in a long time, yeah. So I'm a little bit worried, to be honest, but but I'm excited. So see you then. I'll see you then. Do you like stickers? Sure, we all do. If you head over to guygirlsmediacom slash, sign up and share your address with us, we'll send you a sticker. It really is that easy, but don't wait, there's a limited quantity. Is that easy? But don't wait, there's a limited quantity. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin MacLeod from incompetechcom. Find full music credits in the show notes. Until next time, remember, pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't you know what's in your head?