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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Deep Thoughts about The Goonies
The Goonies never say die!
One of the most quintessential Gen X films, The Goonies, makes for some significant mind furniture: good, bad, and kid-shaped. Richard Donner’s beloved 1985 film gave Gen X kids on-screen peers who talked like we did. They cursed and talked over one another and were cruel and sweet and they went on fabulous adventures. It also gave us unhealthy fatphobia, contradictory messages about greed, and a legendary pirate named after a penis. A lot about this film will garner cringes from contemporary viewers, but Emily notes that under the dated humor, fatphobia, sexism, racial stereotypes, and just plain silliness, there is a sweetness and hear that continues to shine through, especially in the person of Sloth and his relationship with Chunk and the other Goonies, his chosen family.
Throw on your headphones and have a listen, no truffle shuffle required.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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It never ends Like the food jokes are from the beginning to the very end. There is never a point where there's not a food joke. If Chunk is on screen, there's going to be a food joke within the next you know, 90 seconds.
Speaker 2:What others might deem stupid shit. You know matters, you know it's worth talking and thinking about, and so do we. We're sisters, tracyacy and emily, collectively known as the guy girls. Every week, we take turns re-watching, researching and reconsidering beloved media and sharing what we learn. Come over, think with us and if you get value from the show, please consider supporting us. You can become a patron on Patreon or send us a one-time tip through Ko-fi. Both links are in the show notes and thanks.
Speaker 1:I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I will be discussing the 1985 film the Goonies with my sister, tracy Guy-Decker, and with you, let's dive in. So, trace, I associate this film with you and our cousin, chris, but it's one that, like, I remember really liking. I remember moments of it, and so when I saw it again as an adult for the first time, like when I was in college, I remember being really shocked by some of the rather adult humor in it. Tell me what you recall about this film.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't remember much, honestly, like I think I.
Speaker 2:I know that I saw it with you and Chris, I know that I saw it with you and Chris when we were kids, like kid kids, and I know there's like an underground portion and there's the guy who has physical challenges and I guess emotional and mental as well, who says, hey, you guys like, uh, the electric company and, um, it's a bunch of kids and it's an adventure and that's all I got. And I feel a little bit of, um, generational shame, uh, that I would stand up and say I somehow represent gen x and not know the basic plot of the goonies.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, gen X, I feel like I'm letting you down, so I'm really glad that you're here to set me rights. Why are we talking about this, em?
Speaker 1:So this is in a lot of ways like the like late Gen X kid movie and it feels a lot like what things like Stranger Things are trying to capture now. And there is a lot that people are nostalgic about about this film and in some ways for good reason but there's a lot that makes this a very mid-80s time capsule that, um, doesn't look great with, uh, modern eyes. This is one where, uh, as I remember seeing it as a kid, remember really liking it, there were moments that stuck in my head that I could just see easily. But then when I was I think I was a junior or senior in college someone did the Goonies outdoors and so we all went and saw it and it was the first time I'd seen it in probably 10 years and I had not known, realized, remembered that the pirate whose treasure they are after is named One-Eyed Willie, and I was like holy cow. I saw this as a tiny little baby and I had no idea. So that kind of stuff I find really interesting to like revisit things.
Speaker 1:That and because the movie doesn't change, I do Right, the movie doesn't change, I do Right. And there there's media that I have so consistently watched throughout my life that I I don't really have the chance to change, if you know what I mean. This is one I definitely did because like I saw it I don't know I'd say a lot, but it felt like like I knew it reasonably well as a elementary school kid Didn't see it again until I was like 20 or 21. And a lot had changed in that time. And then I think this is the first time I've seen it since then, so like another 25 years in between, and so my viewpoint on this film has changed so much. And it's some of this has to do with cultural change. Some of this has to do with, you know, my personalogyny, that is, ableism, because of the character who has the Honestly that's one thing it does well is it does seem in a lot of ways to be a story of inclusion.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there there are. There's some aspects of it that I think aren't necessarily great. Um, but uh, but that actually, I think, um it, it. It's a better representative of that than what you see a lot of, and in fact, the 80s, oddly sometimes, were really good about inclusion. Do you remember the movie Mac and Me?
Speaker 2:Big.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's terrible. I remember seeing it, but it's like an ET ripoff. Oh, it is, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was thinking that it was like the Navigator, but that's a different one that's a different one. There is space flight of some kind in Mac and Me.
Speaker 1:There's an alien comes to Earth. Okay, the main character is a wheelchair user and it just is.
Speaker 2:That just is.
Speaker 1:And they don't make a big deal about it, nobody makes a big deal about it, it just is. So I'm make a big deal about it, nobody makes a big deal about it, it just is. So I'm thinking like in some ways, the 80s was pretty progressive for some things but not for others. Yeah, yeah, so let me just kind of give you like the bare bones plot yes, because there's a lot I don't remember at all.
Speaker 1:So it takes place in Astoria, oregon. We start off, we meet the Fratelli family. They are criminals, the Ma Fratelli and Francis Fratelli, who is played by Joe Panaglione. Who, actually? Who is the guy who plays Cypher in the Matrix? Oh, actually, who is, um, the guy who plays cypher in the matrix? Oh, which, it's one of those like six degrees of the goonies you can play, because there's a lot of movie stars who went on to huge things. So there's ma francis and they are breaking jake out of jail, um, and they go on this like massive police chase shootout thing.
Speaker 1:We then meet the Goonies. These are the kids who are growing up on the Goondocks of Astoria, oregon, and their houses are being foreclosed on. And the houses are there. They have to move out the next day and the richest people in Astoria are going to raise the houses and just build up like a country club golf course where the houses are. So our main character is Mikey, played by Sean Astin, who is Samwise Gamgee, so kept expecting him to go. Frodo, mr Frodo, his older brother, brandon or Brand, is played by Josh Brolin, who is Thanos in the Marvel movies.
Speaker 2:Oh, in the Marvels, uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then they have several friends. There's Mouth, played by Corey Feldman, who is kind of an obnoxious kid who's also very good at languages. There's Data, who is a Chinese kid. He's played by Kei-Hui Kwan. I believe it's also known as Jonathan K Kwan. He also was in Indiana Jones as Short Round, and then he was Waymond in Everything, everywhere, all at Once.
Speaker 2:And he stopped acting for a long time. Like he stopped acting between Short Round and.
Speaker 1:Waymond, not by choice. Pretty much yes, and not by choice because there weren't roles available for him.
Speaker 2:Right For adolescent. Chinese kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or even young adult, because he's a little older than I am, so he is very much a stereotype. He wears a trench coat and has all of these gadgets and gizmos that he's invented that are like Rube Goldbergian type of inventions. And then there is Chunk, played by Jeff Cohen. His name is Lawrence, but everyone calls him Chunk because he is overweight. So that's the core group of the Goonies. All of the kids come over to Mikey and Bran's house. They go up into the attic where Mikey and Bran's father is the curator of the museum, and so he has a bunch of stuff in the attic that was from an exhibit. These were like the rejects for the exhibit, and there they find a. I know that's not how museum curation works. I'm talking to someone who's an actual museum professional.
Speaker 2:So those of you who are only listening. I was just giving a very quizzical look. I know, Is she my sister?
Speaker 1:This. These are the there's. There's a lot of times you're going to have to hit the I believe button.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, so for listeners who don't know, I am a former museum professional and oh, okay, there's.
Speaker 1:There are many times where it's like that's not how any of this works okay, so there's artifacts um in in mikey and brandt's attic, yes, and mostly like pirate.
Speaker 1:stuff is what it looks like. And so they end up finding a treasure map and a doubloon story to everyone there that his father had told him about the famous pirate One-Eyed Willie, from something like 1637 or somewhere around there, who was up against the British, which actually doesn't really make sense timeline-wise. It would have been the Spanish in the Pacific Northwest part of so anyway, he and his crew got stuck in some sort of cave. The British were surrounded them and like caved them in, and so they ended up they had all the treasure there with them. So one-eyed Willie killed all of his companions so that they couldn't escape with the treasure, and then he booby trapped everything and then died. And so the treasure has been lost forever. And Mikey realizes, because he finds the doubloon separate from the map, he realizes like wait, I think I know how to find this. The map is written in Spanish and it's established that mouth speaks Spanish fluently.
Speaker 1:So the boys find a way to like get Brand, who has been told to keep Mikey in the house or else Brand's going to be in trouble. They get him, uh, get him, um, immobilized, uh, with one of those you remember, those uh like stretchy things, that, uh, that you'd use for exercising, because they always show brand exercising. Sure, uh, they, they, they wrap it around him. Okay, it's. Yeah, I believe. Okay are like wandering around, like looking in this old, abandoned restaurant, and it turns out that that is the Fratelli's like base of operations. So they're caught by the Fratelli's. They had seen two people going into the restaurant and we later realized that they were some sort of police officers, fbi, and they were killed by the Fratelli's. So the four boys get stuck with the Fratellis and they are trying to. They end up escaping.
Speaker 1:Mikey ends up seeing there is a fourth, fratelli, sloth, who is the one you were talking about, who has some physical deformities and apparently has some kind of cognitive difficulties as well, who is chained up in the basement in the the restaurant. Yeah, so the kids escape and run out and they, they run into Brand, who's caught up with them, and then also two girls. There's Andy, who Brand really likes, and Stephanie, her best friend, and there's a subplot with the boy that is the son of the richest man in town. His name is Troy and he's really a piece of crap. And this is the heyday of the 80s. This is the heyday of the 80s, where bullies were murderous. What they do is just like that's sociopathic, that's not bullying. So anyway. So those three, the three 16-year-olds, end up joining the little kids and they, for various reasons, they go back into the restaurant after the Fratellis have left, because Mikey is still looking for the entrance to these caverns. They end up down in the basement.
Speaker 1:Shenanigans ensue. They find the entrance to the cavern underneath of a fireplace. The Fratellis come back, chunk gets left behind, and so, as they're heading down into the basement, he's stuck somewhere. He gets out and they say to him go get the police. We're going down this way because it's the only way out. And so Ch chunk gets to the road and waves down a car. It turns out to be the Fratellis. So they take him back and they lock him in. Well, they ask him where his friends are and then they lock him in with sloth.
Speaker 2:So and, as chunk believes, sloth is a danger to him at this point. Yes, yes, he's a little scared of him because I know, like my recollection is that he becomes one of their allies. He does, what little recollection I have, yeah, but uh, but at that point they, he, he thinks that sloth is like some sort of monster yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So while chunk and sloth are in that room together, all Sloth has is a little TV set and he likes watching TV. And so there's a point where Sloth kind of roars and Chunk gets scared. He's tied to a chair and is like jumping up and down going, and that makes Sloth laugh. And so that's the first indication we have that he's not a monster. He's just. He looks a little scary and is treated very poorly. The two of them end up bonding. Chunk has a Baby Ruth candy bar with him that he throws to on the TV. There's a cook who's frosting a chocolate cake and Sloth says chocolate, and so Chunk throws him the oh, do you like chocolate, I've got some. There's a cook who's frosting a chocolate cake and Sloth says chocolate, and so Chunk throws him the oh, do you like chocolate, I've got some. And it bounces off of him and then like falls out of his reach, and so, even though Sloth has been like sitting in his chains this entire time, he breaks the chain so he can get the chocolate, which again scares Chunk. But then Sloth shares the chocolate with him and is just very sweet.
Speaker 1:Chunk tries to call the police, but they don't believe him because he has a habit of lying. So meanwhile the kids end up finding the first of the booby traps. They find a spot where there's lots and lots of coins and they realize they're underneath of a wishing well that is right by the country club. It just so happens that Troy, the sociopathic bully, happens to be up at the top of the wishing well and there's a bucket there. They're like oh okay, you can get us out. And Mikey convinces them to keep going to see if they can find the real treasure. The fratellis, um, they had been asking, chunk, you know where'd your friends go? And he tells them everything like there's, there's this pirate ship, there's this treasure. Because the fratellis had no idea, and so they follow as well. So that's where they are when Sloth and Chunk get out of Sloth's prison and Chunk calls the police. And then so Chunk and Sloth end up following as well. There are a number of ridiculous hijinks where they have to get past different booby traps, the coolest one being like this piano made of bones, where they have to play the notes correctly and every mistake they make, the floor fall, piece of the floor falls out, and so the only person who plays piano is Andy, who took lessons when she was much younger, and so she's trying to do this, and meanwhile the Fratellis are catching up to them trying to do this. And meanwhile the Fratellis are catching up to them.
Speaker 1:They end up in the cavern where the Inferno that's the name of One-Eyed Willie's ship is, and they get onto the boat and they find the room with the treasure in it. It's surrounded by skeletons around the table, and then there's one with an eye patch that's it's one-eyed Willie. Mikey gets up there first and he like talks to the to to Willie and says like you were the first, goonie, and you know you and I have a lot in common all of that. And they start gathering up the treasure. There are these like scales type things, you know, suspended plates that have gold coins in them, and so everyone starts grabbing the treasure. Mouth starts to grab some from those suspended plates and Mikey says no, no, no, those are for Willie. Take anything else you want, but leave those.
Speaker 1:The Fratellis catch up with them and take all the treasure from them and then have them tied up and make them walk the plank when Sloth and Chunk show up and we saw earlier Sloth watching a pirate film, so he's doing the things that he saw, and that's also when he shouts the. Hey, you guys, all the Goonies end up in the water but they don't have the, the, the treasure, because the Fratelli took it off of them. So they end up. They find a little spot where they can see daylight. Unfortunately, they have candles, but one of them is actually dynamite and they light it and realize like oh no, and they ended up causing another rock fall. Yeah, they found the candles on another body from another treasure hunter and I believe Okay.
Speaker 1:So at this point Sloth is now has, like, pushed away his family and gone to join the Goonies there is a huge rock that is between them and being able to get out, and so Sloth, who is a very, very large man, is able to lift it up, and so everyone runs underneath his legs, and Chunk's the last one, and Chunk's like Slothoth, you have to come with us and sloth goes. Sloth loves chunk and, like you know, grabs his hand and then pushes him out from underneath and then the rock comes down and kills sloth. Don't know, you don't know at the moment.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay the chunk think he's dead, that yeah, he. Well, he's concerned, okay, he's concerned, he's like it's gonna crush you, and that's all we know. So the kids get out onto the beach there's some patrol out there, and so they're then reunited with all of their families. Just a moment later, so it seems a little bit later, all four Fratellis, including Sloth, are coming up the beach, and so the police are trying to arrest all four of them, and all the goonies get in front of sloth saying like no, no, no, he's, he's not one of them, he's with us. And chunk tells sloth, you're gonna live with me now, I'm gonna take care of you, which seems like a pretty big promise to run by his parents.
Speaker 2:Well, so just since he doesn't have a home, isn't his house being foreclosed on?
Speaker 1:Meanwhile there is a Spanish speaking helper who Mikey and Brandon's mother had hired to help help them to with packing, and so she'd come with them.
Speaker 1:She doesn't speak much English or any, and so she is like just kind of helping with the clothes that the kids had taken off because it was all wet and, like you know, organizing it, and she finds the marble bag that Mikey had had his marbles in it.
Speaker 1:He took the marbles out and put jewels in, and the Fratellis missed it when they took all the jewelry off of them. So while Mikey and Brandon's dad is in the middle of signing the document about the foreclosure that will allow it, she starts trying to say don't sign, don't sign, and a mouth has to translate and so everything's saved. And then at the last moment, because everyone's asking where did you get these jewels, where did you get this treasure? And they're trying to explain and no one believes them because Chunk is the one talking and he has a habit of lying when the Inferno is somehow released from its cavern. When the Fratellis had gone into the treasure room, they took the treasure off of the suspended plates, which was the last booby trap, and it caused the ceiling to collapse or something of the cavern, and so it freed the boat to sail off by itself.
Speaker 1:It comes out into the sound or something, and then cue Cyndi Lauper and the movie is over.
Speaker 2:Huh, okay, okay, uh-huh, and then cue cindy lopper and the movie is over. Huh, okay, okay, I'm. I'm realizing there's a lot of like derivative, like things that are derivative of it, that I didn't realize because I had lost the plot in my memory, but like little movies and little things that I'm seeing and what you've described were actually sort of derivative of this, and probably it's in a line that there are others before it as well that I'm not aware of. But yeah, okay, I. So where do you want to start with the analysis?
Speaker 1:So let's talk about Chunk, because I remember feeling a little weird about even as a six-year-old.
Speaker 2:He's the fat kid.
Speaker 1:Yes, who has a name, but they call him chunk? Yeah, his name is lawrence, but everyone calls him chunk, and I remember that bothering me as a kid. Yeah, um, the other so, and everyone is really pretty cruel to him, which I think is somewhat period typical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like time capsule.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:But, what strikes me even more is how much the script relies on it so constantly. Chunk is talking about food. He is distracted by food. He like smells something and goes like oh, I think that's. And so discovers things. Because of that, he is clumsy and constantly dropping things. The way that he's dressed he's wearing plaid pants and a flowered shirt, and so, like the entire point of his character is that ha ha, fat kid. Funny. Including when we first meet him.
Speaker 1:There is a Rube Goldberg machine that opens the gate to Mikey and Brandon's house. And he's at the gate, going let me in, let me in. Mouth is already there. Like it's not clear how Mouth got in, because the gate has this Rube Goldberg machine. He's like going, let me in, let me in, Mouth is already there. Look, it's not clear how Mouth got in, because the gate has this Rube Goldberg machine. He's like hey, let me in, let me in, Come on. And Mouth says to him like only if you do the truffle shuffle. And Chunk is like no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. He's like then you're not coming in. So he, you're not coming in. So he's like all right, fine. And he jumps up on like a stump or something like that, and he pulls up his shirt and he does this like dance, so that you can see his, his stomach like jiggling and it's gross.
Speaker 2:It's gross, yucky, and that was actually ad libbed to like a 10 year old or 11.
Speaker 1:Yeah it was, um, it was ad libbed by jeff cohen. So like they they knew, I think, that it was written that, um, um, cory feldman's mouth was gonna say do the truffle shuffle, and then it was gonna be up to jeff cohen to figure out what that was so it was internalized fat phobia that he made his stomach bounce. Yeah um, so, and it's just like. This movie is over the top in every direction right so like camp, it's camp, it's all camp. So everything is, is, is, uh is cranked up to 11 yeah so like it's on.
Speaker 1:It's understandable that the fat phobia as punchline yeah to him is a fat joke, but it's hard to watch. Particularly so. Jeff Cohen is no longer an actor, he is now an entertainment lawyer and he is um very fit and uh. This film was um directed by richard donner, who was apparently like sad at seeing like the, the truffle shuffle that cohen made up, um and like kind of took this kid under his wing, which is kind of lovely, except that he paid for gym membership for him, so that by the time Cohen was in high school, he was like like wrestling and and and you know, like.
Speaker 1:What this says to me is, for one thing, one thing I have seen it on multiple occasions where there's a kid who is a little chubby, who grows up to be svelte, because that's how kids grow, we have created this entire mythos about like fat is as fat does about children, which is not okay about adults either, but is particularly weird and short sighted and like ugly about children. And this is like just because you so often will see, like, as I tell my kids, like you know, kids grow out, then up. You know like that's just, that's just how our bodies work, and so you know, like the fact that it is a surprise that Jeff Cohen, if you see pictures of him now you're like damn, when he was actually an adorable kid. I mean, he really was adorable. It's like so gross.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the thing that like bothers me about stories like this are not that the gym membership was purchased Like whatever Healthy choices are good, fitness is good. I am a regular gym goer but I feel like it's not actually about making healthy choices, it's about being thin and those two things are not the same and I feel like that's where we miss. Like that's where we really miss as a society is that we have equated thinness with health and with merit and with morality, and that is just a false equivalency and that's where it really bothers me. So these stories about like so he took this kid under his wing, it's great because clearly the kid had some clearly cohen had some internalized fat phobia that he did that truffle shuffle, the way that he did it, you know, in in ad lib. But rather than like hey, let's like treat your body with dignity and respect, it's like let's make you thin so it's worthy of treating it with. Yeah dignity.
Speaker 1:Well, and like, just considering the script as written, there's no, there was no chance of cohen treating his body as it appeared in 1985. Um, now, and here's, here's where, like this, this movie is really interesting and why I think so many people love it and why it has endured is well, for one thing, this is basically all kids, like the, the entire cast for for the majority of the hour and 40, no, like 50 minute movie, it's nearly two hours, his kids, and they're all really good actors, with the exception of Cohen, who stopped acting because, like parts dried up, similar to Kwan, and decided you know, I don't want to wait like, I want to do something else, I'm going to go in a different direction in my life, um, but the rest of them all remained in acting and so, like some of this is like you get a lot more than you would from a lot of kids movies that are helmed by kids, and so one of those is like Chunk is lovable. He's like this very sweet, lovable kid, even with the ugly fat jokes in there. But the way that he responds to Sloth is just delightful and adorable and so welcoming. Just delightful and adorable and so welcoming when the Fratellis are trying to find out where his friends are. He's telling them the truth and they don't believe him and they're threatening him. They're like tell us. And he's like, okay, okay, I'll talk. And he starts confessing to all the terrible things he's done in his life and there's something so just genuine and sweet about it and about like how he, how he, he brings it out, so like some of this is just like Cohen's a very good actor and and there's some sweetness written into it and then the just the actor bringing to that character was just lovely as well. But it's it's hard to watch just because it never ends Like the food jokes are from the beginning to the very end.
Speaker 1:There is never a point where there's not a food joke. If Chunk is on screen, there's going to be a food joke within the next, you know, 90 seconds and that's it's really unpleasant. And the way that he first is able to bond with Sloth is over food and that is in part because it's clear the fratellis withhold food from sloth, yeah, and so like once sloth gets them both out, like the first thing uh he does is he finds the ice cream and is like get it. Like while chunk is trying to to make a phone call to the police. Sloth is getting ice cream and spoons for them both.
Speaker 1:And what I appreciate about this, that relationship, is that you do see this like absolute acceptance and not just chunk of sloth, sloth of chunk.
Speaker 1:Because I feel like this film is accurate in the way that kids really do talk to each other, in that they're like constantly talking over each other and they're insulting each other and, like you know, playing jokes and, and you know they're, they're being little shits depending on the friend group.
Speaker 1:That's how kids act and so, particularly because chunk is so often the so often the butt of everyone's joke, the fact that Sloth is so delighted with Chunk and accepts him as he is makes it understandable that they have this lovely bond, his friends. Uh, the reason why chunk got left behind is, uh, he smelled ice cream and found a freezer I don't know how you smell ice cream found a freezer and inside was a dead body that fell out and they all started freaking out. The Fratellis came back. They heard them come back and they're like, oh my God, we've got to get the body back in the freezer. And chunk got stuck in the freezer with the body started freaking out, the fratellis came back. They heard them come back and they're like, oh my god, we got to get the body back in the freezer and chunk got stuck in the freezer with the body and so like that's how much they care about traumatizing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the level I'm like. The friends do care about him, they do, but they don't realize he's missing until they're they have gone down into the tunnel. And then when he breaks out and they, they're like, okay, you gotta, you gotta get out, go out through the window and go get the police.
Speaker 2:So so um, can I ask? I'm curious about the um, the, um, like the, the casual racism, like everything's over the top, it's all camping so campy. So we've got over the top campy fat phobia, where chunk is just one fat joke. Is data one long chinese joke?
Speaker 1:yeah, so he's got kind of an over the top accent. He has all of these inventions that kind of don't work very well. I mean, they do and they, they, they will, will rescue him. But it's like this sense of like he's he's too smart for his own good, he's so smart that he does stupid things kind of thing. And so and I, I, I kind of remember, I don't know like there there were a couple of the the.
Speaker 1:So there's one um that he has at the very end, when they're they're they're going to fight with the Fratellis, he's like, no, no, I got something for this. And he has, at the very end, when they're they're they're going to fight with the Fratellis, he's like no, no, I got something for this. And he has, um, it's a boxing glove on like a spring that he like has sends out and it's uh, misaligned, so it goes up and does like an uppercut and hits him. So it's just, it's camp, you know, and it it's it's very much like inspector gadget type thing. And if we didn't have like, if you weren't the only non-white kid right, right.
Speaker 2:It's like I heard this I think it was actually a tiktoker an asian tiktoker who was talking about how he wished that there were more characters who were Asian for no reason, where their Asian-ness didn't actually rely on the plot, because there's so many white people who are white for no reason.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of what you're saying, like Chunk is fat for a reason, it's part of the plot, it's required by the plot. Data is Chinese for a reason, like it's part of the plot. Data is Chinese for a reason, like it's part of the plot, or at least the stereotypes about Asian people is is part of the plot for this. So it's not just like it's, it's not like the Mac and me that you named where the kid was a wheelchair user and it wasn't a thing, it wasn't a part of the plot.
Speaker 2:He was a wheelchair user for no reason like that, and I think that's that's kind of what I was hearing about chunk and was wondering about about data, and you've confirmed that that that is the case.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah and like everyone has a, a characteristic that that's like it's everyone's one note and that's that's. This is not a film that you go in looking for depth or nuance. Nuance, yeah, um. So you know the fact that brandon is always exercising, that is important for the plot because, like that's how they're able to subdue him. The fact that mouth is like a motor mouth and good with languages, that means means he's able to read the math that's in Spanish and, you know, is constantly talking, gets in trouble.
Speaker 1:And I, the thing that I remember thinking was hilarious as a little kid is when they're taking the Fratellis, are taking all the treasure off of the kids. Mama Fratelli says, says to mouth, like aren't you the one they call mouth? He's like, he's like and she's like you're being very, very quiet, like what have you got in there? And it's because he's put some treasure in his mouth in the hopes that they won't find it. And so she like pulls out a strand of pearls and it keeps coming and coming and coming. And then she's like is that everything he's like? And she's like nope, open up and like more stuff. And I remember finding that hilarious as a small child because he was the mouth, uh, but you know, they, they have, they have these names, um.
Speaker 1:So, and even even the girls we get, um, andy, who is just a pretty plot device, mm-hmm Um, and I don't know if you remember she ends up kissing Mikey, thinking he's Brandon. Mm-hmm Um, I actually like I remembered that and I remember being like really uncomfortable with it as a kid and it actually, the way that it comes about, is a lot less weird than I remembered. So we see Andy and Stephanie talking and Stephanie's like this is not the time or the place, because Andy has really been wanting to kiss Brandon and and he's like I know, I'm going to do it. And so she, she calls like Brandon, can you come over here please? And Brandon is in the middle of something and he's like Mikey, can you go see what she needs? And so she has her eyes closed. She hears him coming and she grabs him and kisses him and so, like I had remembered it being a little bit more like this is one of those. Nobody did anything specifically wrong, because Brandon and Andy had almost kissed multiple times prior to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess I mean the lessons about consent, even from a woman. You know the female identified person to the male identified person like consent still matters.
Speaker 1:It does, it, does it's, and I like, I totally like. Yes, it's still not great, but it's a lot better than I remember, that's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair, but it's a lot better than I remembered it. That's fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fair. And so Stephanie sees that it's Mikey and she thinks it's hilarious. And so, and like Mikey, like Stephanie like helps him go elsewhere. And then Andy's like what, it was beautiful. She doesn't know, andy has no idea until later, when she kisses brandon. She's like what happened to your braces? Because mikey has braces and brandon doesn't. Oh boy, so and then like they, they realize what? And then she later like says to Mikey, if you keep kissing girls like that, you're going to be okay, or so I don't know, something along those lines. It's weird, it's weird.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's lucky yeah. It's not okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's not okay, it's, it's so weird and it's it's that. That actually is the part that I like, that now I'm seeing it as a kid that just kind of went by me. Um, it was the actual kiss that I had a problem with. This time around seeing it, I'm just like, no, that's the problem where it's like, you know, sexualizing a boy and making it as if that's the end, all be all, and it's sexualizing a child.
Speaker 2:It's also there's a degree of like, I don't know, like the consent doesn't matter if it was good, which is I mean that we see that a lot in the 80s. If you fail to gain consent but then the person enjoys it, it then you're all clear. I don't know there's a lot that's wrong with that.
Speaker 1:And the sense that as long as you're good at sexual stuff, you can be anything else you want to be, or it doesn't matter Nothing else, matters which which they would never say, even in 85, to a girl.
Speaker 2:right that there's the gendered component of it as well, because a girl who's good at sex is a whore or a slut, but a boy who's good at sex can do whatever the hell he wants. Yeah, there's so much messed up about this.
Speaker 1:It's so gross, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so Well, we've been talking for a long minute. I have a feeling there's like at least one more big point that you want to get to, so let's hear it.
Speaker 1:I do want to talk a little bit about class yeah because that is really so.
Speaker 1:There is a point where, when they can get up through the wishing well and mikey it might be, it's that point. Or another point where mikey says goonies never say die and andy says I'm not a goonie because she doesn't live um at it's not goon point, the goon docs, goon docs, she doesn't live at the goon docs, yeah, and she is sort of dating t, sort of not dating Troy. It's one of those where, like Troy's the bully, yes, troy's the bully.
Speaker 2:So when we first see her, Andy, who we were talking about before, who wants to kiss Brand? Yes, is he dating him?
Speaker 1:Oh, she really is a prize to kiss brand yes dating him, so not exactly it's more prize, it's more that um like it's it's not clear that she's dating him. She, like brandon, says something along the lines of like I have a date with andy on on friday, and so it's clear that brandon and andy like each other and that that is that is her interest.
Speaker 2:But t Troy is also interested in her, but Troy likes her too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we see her getting a ride from him in his red new convertible car and he's moving the mirror so he can look down her shirt and she knows it. And she tells him like if you move it again I don't remember exactly what she does, but she threatens him, she's like she, she, she's not having it so she's not, she's they.
Speaker 2:They give the script, gives her enough agency that she's not just like being handed from one man to the other, it sounds like. And the fact that we see that he, that the bad guy, the villain, has interest in her, but we, but she actually ends up with the poor kid, makes her very much a prize.
Speaker 1:So something that I think is interesting to talk about, class Is. So when we meet Troy, he's driving this like brand new convertible, he's 16. When the kids run away from Brandon, like when they trap him, run away, mouth lets out the air on the tires of Brandon's bike and Mikey says to him like don't do that. He had to mow like 347 lawns to afford that bike. And Mikey says to him like don't do that. He had to mow like 347 lawns to afford that bike. And so there's this like this clear distinction. You know, like that's. And he says his favorite thing it's his prized possession. So like the clear class distinction between Troy and Brandon there.
Speaker 2:I mean plus the story arc of the homes being foreclosed on.
Speaker 1:Yes, but there's a really interesting moment when they are beneath the wishing well and it is Troy and two of his rich friends who are standing around the wishing well and I read a commentary saying even though Andy doesn't consider herself a goonie, she is going to be the first one they lift up, and it's partially because Troy sees that she's down there and so he wants to help her. And at first, data's like I'm the smallest, I should go up first. And Brandon, who is the oldest one there, is like you know what? No, I want to make the like. I think Andy should go up first. And you know what? No, I want to make the like. I think Andy should go up first, and you know, and then we'll, we'll go up one at a time.
Speaker 1:And so this commenter, commentator um, pointed out that this is like Troy is raising Andy up to his level through marriage in the way that that can happen. And so, even though Andy doesn't live in the Goondocks and she is not the same level as those who are going to lose their homes, she's definitely not wealthy like Troy's family is, and so she has more in common with the Goonies than she does with Troy and his family and friends, and so I thought that that was really interesting. And then the fact that she, mikey, convinces her like, hey, we could create our own future by continuing and finding Willie's gold and and, you know, saving our homes and all of that. So there's like an interesting story in there or interesting metaphor in there about like kind of like american bootstraps and and can do and that sort of thing where it's like, you know this, the, the lower income kids band together to get something, winning out against both the criminals and the like wealthy.
Speaker 1:And how Andy chooses not to go be raised up by Troy and in fact they what they do, they don't tell him they're not coming up. She has been wearing Troy's Letterman sweater, so she puts that on the bucket and when he pulls the bucket up it's just his sweater. So it's very much a repudiation of Troy and so that I think is also really interesting about this class. Solidarity, solidarity. It's fascinating I think.
Speaker 2:I think there's something also, if we're talking about the metaphors of it. There's something really interesting that you just put three strata for well, four, at least three, um, with sort of the middle class banding together and the upper class and then sort of criminal criminals. And it's interesting to me too the way you described the plot. You had mikey, I think, talk to the deceased, one-eyed willie and kind of like have a moment of solidarity with the dead pirate who was a criminal, at least in some way of understanding right, but, um, but sort of leaving willie, what was willie's on those plates, whatever they were, was actually like showed a level of understanding that it it corroborated mikey's assertion that they had things in common, because that's what kept the boat from doing what it did in the end, that the Fratellis didn't do. Right, they were too greedy. Right, the kids were greedy, but it was for the right reasons, like some of that kind of moralizing that happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and the Fratellis were greedy just for greed's sake, right. And like there's really interesting, like I know I don't have to tell you, but like being around you for as long as I have, like I'm seeing really interesting, like lessons about money in particular and moralizing around money in sort of the class strata, by making the rich guys the bad guys, but also in sort of the attitude towards those doubloons between these kids, the goonies and the fratellis well, and it's.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because it's it's making it clear that the problem with the fratellis is the same as the problem with troy's father and the people who want to foreclose on the, on the houses is that they want more than what's theirs. They are greedy to the point of like rapaciousness, whereas greed's fine as, as long as you like. There there's a border to it somewhere.
Speaker 2:Or, like I said, for the right reasons I'm putting quotes around that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, there's a point where Mikey apologizes to his dad. He says there's, you know, we left the loot to save our lives. And his dad says you know, I have you and your brother, I'm the richest man in Astoria. And Troy's says you know I have you and your brother, I'm the richest man in Astoria. And Troy's father says no, I'm actually the richest man in Astoria and you need to sign this. So oh, yeah, it's very American. Like this is not a film that could be made by British. Yeah, it's just an odd, odd movie that really captures, especially like the 1980s. Greed is good, it's just nowhere to stop. The solidarity with Willie is another thing that I remembered. Willie was not just a pirate, he was a murderer. Not that those are mutually exclusive Of his own crew, but of his own crew, yeah, so like having solidarity with that guy doesn't seem particularly nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and his greed, I mean in murdering his own crew so that they couldn't escape with it. But he knew he couldn't escape with it either, hence he booby trapped the cavern, like that feels like the wrong kind of greed, y'all. Yeah, yeah, wow, all right. Well, I'm actually going to ask one more question before I try and wrap up. Why do people love it so much? Why is this movie so beloved?
Speaker 1:So as I said, the, the, the acting choices of these children are amazing.
Speaker 1:Like, even though everyone is like a stick figure of a character, the kids playing them really give them depth and nuance.
Speaker 1:So I think there is something to that.
Speaker 1:Like you, you really believe that these are, these are, these people are friends, like you believe that these are real people, even though they are very much not real people because of like the over the topness of so much of of how they respond to each other. So I think that's that's part of it. Another part of it is this is feels like a movie that recognizes when kids know they're being talked down to, so like it's a ridiculous movie and there are things that you know are put in there to make the movie work that aren't realistic. But the things that kids care about are realistic. Like the kids say shit to each other all the time. They actually curse. It's PG or maybe PG-13. I don't know, but it doesn't have the F word or anything like that. But they talk about the things the kids actually talk to each other about. They talk over each other, they get mad at each other, they yell at each other, they say terrible things to each other. So like that is something that I feel like a lot of movie makers would not do, because like, oh, we don't want to put that in a kid's movie, and kids know that, whereas like this feels like when you're watching it, you're like, yeah, this is how kids are, like this, this is, this is like a true group of friends, this is the the kind of cruelty that they would have for each other, even though they really do care about each other. Um, and so I think that, combined with the adventure aspect of it, which really is cool the piano is the one that I remember as being like that is so cool, but like the booby traps and like the kids being able to outsmart adults who have tried, because there are other adults who have tried to get there and have failed, and they outsmart the Fratellis, and like that is also really compelling.
Speaker 1:And then one other thing that I I think people really appreciate about this movie is, um, actually sloth, and so I saw I was doing a little bit of research I saw someone who had never seen it watched it for the first time sometime in like the last five or 10 years, and they like they didn't get it and they're like, why is Sloth in this movie? I don't understand what that character is there for and I was feeling like, well, of course Sloth is in the movie, like that's kind of what the movie is about. Sloth is in the movie, like that's kind of what the movie is about is like the importance of not judging each other and being kind to a kind, even when you're frightened. Because Mikey is the first to see Sloth and is terrified but he sees that, um, jake has left Sloth's food where he can't reach it and so he kind of kicks it closer and sloth roars and he gets frightened and runs away. So even when he's terrified he's trying to be kind. Wish he could be that kind to his friends.
Speaker 1:But but the the that's dynamic of it's kind of like the casual cruelty that the Fratellis have for their own and we see there's a lot of squabbling between Francis and Jake, the other two brothers, and constantly bickering and arguing with their mother and stuff like that which is mostly played for laughs. But they are unutterably cruel to Sloth. And then you see, among Troy and his father you don't see any kind of cruelty like that, but you do see Troy talking about Andy with some friends in a very degrading, casually cruel way. They're like, have you gotten with Andy yet? And, and, uh, he's like, um, I haven't yet, but the operative word is yet, and you know it's, it's gross. And so the Goonies like the difference we see with them, and especially when we see at the end, when they're, they're reunited with their parents, um, is this like undercurrent of acceptance and love and, you know, seeing each other, even though it's a film that relies on stereotypes. So they're, they're like, you get this and in part because of the like, just incredible skill of the of the child actors, many, like pretty much all, of whom grew up to be a-list celebrities.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna say all of whom, but they all grew up to to to show that this was not a fluke. These are, these are not child actors, these are actors who happen to be children, um, but there's also there's this undercurrent of like sweetness that I think people really, really appreciated. And if you encountered it for the first time as a kid in the 80s, when the fat phobia and the casual racism didn't really like connect as as as a problem, like cause, that's what was in every movie we saw and it's genuinely funny. And then you, you get this genuine sense of like these are real kids. These are not, you know, scripted lines, cause they're. They're shouting over each other, they're, you know, they feel like they're doing all of these things is is really.
Speaker 1:It's kind of remarkable, and so there's there. There's very good reason why people like it. So there's very good reason why it's a lot of people's favorite movie, and I think that it's. It's definitely still worth watching. It's just one of those. As you watch, be cognizant of the fact that you're going to get a lot of jokes that just don't hit anymore because they feel so cruel, but the heart underneath of it is a very tender and sweet one.
Speaker 2:All right, can I do my? Thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, do your thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can I do my thing? Yeah, do your thing. Yeah, can I do my thing? Yeah, do your thing.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll do my best, so I think I'm actually going to popcorn around a little bit. So you started your analysis by talking about the fat phobia in the character of chunk and you noted Lawrence, the character of Lawrence, who people call chunk, and you noted that all of these characters are one note characters, and so it's like it's part and parcel, like it fits that there's one note, there is one joke with this character, because everything is dialed up to 11 and a lot of it is based on stereotypes. And also it hurts to see the casual fat phobia, the way in which, if you said I heard you say, if Chunk is on screen, there will be a food joke within the next 90 seconds that it's just one long fat joke at this person's expense, which, which actually like played out even in the real life of this actor, cohen jeff cohen, right, jeff, who's um the one of the adults associated with the film, sort of so-called took him under his wing and, to do so, got him a gym membership and now he's all svelte and fit as an entertainment lawyer, which, I pointed out, is like not bad right, like fitness is a good thing. And also the problem is when we we put equivalencies around, um merit, merit and morality, um, and deservingness, right, like. I really wish that Jeffrey Cohen had gotten the lesson that his body was worthy of dignity and care, regardless of how it was shaped. And also I'm glad he's making healthier choices like, or healthy choices he could have made. I don't know if he was making healthy choices or not because he was a kid and, as you pointed out, a lot of times kids like have some extra, um, extra size out before they go up.
Speaker 2:We I asked if this a similar, um, kind of sort of stereotyping and one note ness was true with the character of data, um, the chinese character, and you noted that it was he's sort of an inspector gadget character who's like too smart for his own good and ends up kind of flubbing it with his many, his many inventions, and that is too bad and also expected, let me see. So we talked a bit about oh, we actually spent a good amount of time talking about the moment when Andy accidentally kisses Mikey, mikey, mm-hmm, when she intends to kiss Brandon, and sort of the aftermath of that, like in the moment it's just sort of played for laughs. And then afterwards Andy says to him once she realizes that she kissed him by accident. You keep kissing like that kid and you're going to be okay. And we talked about the fact that this is really unpleasant on multiple levels, like not only is it a sexualization of a child, and sort of the implication that lack of consent is somehow made okay if the person enjoys it. And the genders were reversed in terms of who was older and who was younger. That never would have happened, even in the 80s, because girls who are good at sex are sluts and boys who are good at sex can have whatever they want.
Speaker 2:With that same character of Andy, you brought in some interesting sort of visual metaphors around class and gender, in the ways in which Andy, though she isn't as kind of low on the social hierarchy as the Goonies, she's not as high as Troy and the rich kids, and there's a literal opportunity for her to be lifted up by those rich people which she chooses instead to repudiate them and return the guy's letterman jacket. And there's a metaphor in there around sort of the matrimony and the ways in which marriage can change a person's status. But what do they give up in so doing status, but what do they give up in so doing? We spent a long time talking too about class and some of the messages around class and the messages around money and greed. And there's some kind of two-sided like both sides of the coin messages happening at the same time where we're seeing like greed's all right when the Goonies do it because it's like for the right reasons, or because messages happening at the same time where we're we're seeing like greets, all right when the Goonies do it because it's like for the right reasons or because they they know when to stop, you know, or because they leave Willie, what was Willie's. And it's bad when the Fratellis do it because they just don't know when to stop, it's rapacious. And it's bad when the Troys of the world and the rich folks in the town do it because, again, it's rapacious and they don't know when to stop and they also lose sight of what really matters. I'm putting quotes around that which we get explicitly at the end of the movie, when Brandon Mikey's dad says I have you and your brother, I'm the richest man in the town. And Troy's dad's like no, I am and I'm going to take your house from you. Um, let me see, I feel like there was. Oh.
Speaker 2:And then finally, I asked you why this movie is so beloved, and you talked about a couple of things.
Speaker 2:One, the just acting chops of these kids, who I love the way you put this they weren't child actors, they were actors who happened to be children and gave these flat characters quite a bit of nuance interact with one another in ways that felt realistic, that kids actually do, not the way grownups write kids, but the way kids actually act, which, for those of us who maybe watched it as kids in the 80s and 90s in repeat, just felt really validating and real and resonated in important ways.
Speaker 2:You also really pointed to the ways in which this film drives a message of inclusion and the message of not judging and sort of loving folks and being kind, even when we're scared, with the person of sloth, the, who has both physical deformities and also, um, intellectual disabilities, it seems, but who and who is the children are scared of when they first meet him, but who ends up being their literal salvation at one point, um, and and the way that you put it just at the end, that I thought was really, um, lovely is that, though, there are things that have not aged well, the sort of time capsule jokes, um, that were of the 80s that have not aged well. The heart which is underneath this film like it, the actual kind of like, and the moral of the story is remains really sort of sweet. So that's what I remember for a synthesis. What did I forget?
Speaker 1:Um, so one thing I want to just kind of lift up is uh, cause when we first started talking you, you were saying I was saying like yeah, there's casual racism, there's fat phobia, and you're like, oh, and ableism, like actually no, this film does a really decent job of making it clear that Sloth is one of the Goonies. He is one of them even though he is a Fratelli by birth and is not a child and visually kind of scary, but he is an equal and important part of the team and so that that was something that, uh, I like I remember liking that storyline as a kid, Um, but it was lovely to see again, just to to to recognize like, oh, wow, there, that that is a really important lesson of of inclusion, that I of inclusion that I don't know how often we get in modern films for kids some of the like.
Speaker 2:Now we see blatant like jokes that went over their heads, like the name of the pirate being one-eyed willie. So yeah, the dick jokes, the dick jokes baked in that we missed when we were kids. Okay, well, this was fun. Thank you for taking this one. I'm sure that this one will be important for our fellow Gen Xers, and next week is me, and I'm gonna bring another one that reminds me of our cousin Chris, which is Richard Pryor's the Toy.
Speaker 1:That is going to be an interesting one to revisit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, good luck with that. This kind of feels like if we decide to do Soul man at some point, it's like, oh boy, do we want to do soul man at some point? It's like, oh boy, do we want to touch that?
Speaker 2:Not it? Not it? All right, I'll see you then. See you then. Do you like stickers? Sure, we all do. If you head over to guy girls mediacom slash, sign up and share your address with us, we'll send you a sticker. It really is that easy. But don't wait, there's a limited quantity. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin MacLeod from incompetechcom. Find full music credits in the show notes. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?