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Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Ever had something you love dismissed because it’s “just” pop culture? What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters. You know it’s worth talking and thinking about. So do we. We're Tracie and Emily, two sisters who think a lot about a lot of things. From Twilight to Ghostbusters, Harry Potter to the Muppets, and wherever pop culture takes us, come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t: A Pop-Culture Podcast
Deep Thoughts about Jaws
We’re gonna need a bigger podcast…
Join the Guy Girls this week as Emily geeks out about the most tightly-written and well-crafted summer blockbuster ever made: Jaws. This film taught us the importance of keeping the monster hidden until the third act (which only happened because the mechanical shark broke down), features the most chilling four-minute monologue (telling the true story of the U.S.S. Indianapolis), and gave Emily a framework for understanding why officials might focus on profits over safety (which she needed during Covid). While there is no such thing as a perfect film–Jaws barely passes the Bechdel test and relies on the sexualized-young-woman-in-peril trope–this masterpiece comes pretty darn close.
Put on your headphones…but don’t go in the water!
CW: Discussion of violent/fatal shark attacks and child death.
Analysis of the film:
https://lithub.com/on-the-endless-symbolism-of-the-best-summer-movie-ever-made-jaws
https://www.thejc.com/life-and-culture/the-real-meaning-of-jaws-bjkgf9ry
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
I mean, like I just I get, I get heart palpitations with excitement at how good that is.
Speaker 2:What others might deem stupid shit. You know matters, you know it's worth talking and thinking about, and so do we. We're sisters, tracy and Emily, collectively known as the guy girls. Every week, we take turns rewatching and reconsidering beloved media and sharing what we learn. Come overthink with us and if you get value from the show, please consider supporting us. You can become a patron on Patreon or send us a one-time tip through Ko-fi. Both links are in the show notes and thanks.
Speaker 1:I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't you know what's in your head? On today's episode, I will be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1975 blockbuster hit Jaws with my sister, tracy Guy-Decker, and with you. Let's dive in. So, trace, what do you know about Jaws? I don't even know if you've seen it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I've seen it all the way through Um and I've. My kid and my spouse watched it this past summer, so it was on in the house while I was home.
Speaker 2:So I saw like pieces of it, uh, but I I didn't. I haven't seen it. So what's in my head is a terrifying shark, um, and I think because my kid watching it like the shark doesn't actually appear for most of it Like that's kind of in my head, like maybe there's like the actual fear is is sort of like what's in your imagination, although the shark is pretty terrifying, like the small bits of it that I've seen. Um, I know it was a huge success, like people just really deeply loved it. Uh, the shark eats the boat. That's it. That's all I. Why are we talking?
Speaker 1:about it? A couple of reasons. One is, um, this is the film that started the summer blockbuster trend. So it used to be, prior to this film, that a summer was the, the uh time of year when they would dump movies they didn't think would do well and the the movies that they really had high didn't think would do well and the movies that they really had high hopes for would be released in winter. This is also the film that started wide release all at the same time.
Speaker 1:It used to be that when you would release a film, you would release it slowly, like start in Atlanta and then go to New York and all across the country, so things weren't happening all at once. They'd kind of see how it did in various cities and then slowly release it one at a time in different cities or, if it was doing well, maybe several cities at once. It was not typical for it to be a specific release day all over the country, for it to be a specific release day all over the country. This is what changed that Now. Part of it was because they threw a lot of money into advertising the film ahead of time in the way that we think of film advertising now, where they would be like everyone. You should see this when it comes out on this day.
Speaker 1:That's not how it used to be. We have jaws to thank for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We have jaws to thank for every big blockbuster film that comes out during the summer, because that was the other aspect of it. Prior to this, a lot of films were kind of going in the direction of what filmmakers wanted, um, and this gave film executives, um, studio executives the idea that, like, oh, we can kind of manufacture a moneymaker, which is a shame, because it's the wrong lesson to take from Jaws in terms of Jaws' success.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I mean. So, listeners, my sister's been texting me over the past couple days about how excited she is to record this, because Jaws is a masterpiece and it's such a great film. So I'm sort of surprised that the first thing you're telling me is crass consumerism is the result of this film, yes, and there are great movies that came about because of this film.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I mean in part, steven Spielberg's oeuvre. He would have been a filmmaker no matter what, but the amount of money and prestige he was allowed to access because of this film is definitely different. So that's part of the reason why I want to talk about it is because of its place in movie history. And then another reason I want to talk about it is actually because of COVID. So one of the through lines, the only real villain of the piece other than the shark, is the mayor of Amity, who is throughout thwarting Brody, the main character, the chief of police, when he's trying to close the beaches because he's worried about the economic impact. And the most recent time I saw this prior to this week was in 2015. There was a revival. They brought it back to the theaters and I went to see it. It was an amazing experience to watch it on the big screen and I at the time was like that's not how it would happen. No one would put economics ahead of the safety of their constituents.
Speaker 1:Oh you sweet child, my sweet summer child, yes, and in fact, watching it post-covid, the fact that the mayor is shamed into changing his changing course is what seems naive. So so that's that's part of why I wanted to talk about it, because that's what I was thinking about multiple times, over and over again during the depth of the COVID pandemic, when we were in lockdown and people were like, screw that, I'm getting my hair cut. You were thinking about Jaws. Yeah, I was thinking about Jaws. Yeah, I was thinking about Jaws. Yeah, because it was a specific type of reaction to danger that I had not experienced in life until I saw what happened with COVID, and the people who placed economics above life was something that I naively thought was cartoonish.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Huh, okay. So and then I, it's just a. It's just a banger of a movie. The storytelling, the writing is so tight that I cannot help but be in awe of what they have done. And the storytelling is actually. It's not Peter Benchley who was the author of the novel Jaws and original screenwriter.
Speaker 1:They then got several people in to do script doctoring and in fact they were getting the um, the script for the next day's scene the night before oh boy yeah, so this was a very troubled production famously troubled production and um, the fact that this masterpiece came out of all this, this troubled production including the fact that you don't see the shark until a good, I don't know two thirds of the way through the film was a decision that came about because the mechanical sharks that they were using kept breaking down, and so it actually made a much better film.
Speaker 2:That is fantastic. I mean, like I feel like on the show. Before we've talked about sort of accidents like that, like happy accidents like that, but like I don't know. There's something like that like just like tingles my brain in cases like that where, like this, they were writing around, you know, working around like problems, and it actually made for a better product.
Speaker 1:And there's, there's an even better example of that, which I'll get to, not an even better. There's another example of that that I did not know. I knew about the mechanical shark breaking, but I did not know about this until I was doing research for this episode. Another like happy accident that changed the plot. It's, it's just a tour de force, and nearly 50 years on watching it, I have trouble believing, when you finally do see the shark, that it's a real shark. But I'm not, I. I, even with that, I'm still scared. So so I, I, I just. There's a lot there that I want to talk about and, uh, like talk about why this film is so beloved, why it, you know, considered one of the best films ever made, and just how Steven Spielberg, who was 27 years old, managed to make this amazing film. So that's, that's what's what's going on here, cool.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, you heard what little of the plot I know. There's people, there's a shark, people die, shark dies. That's what I know of the plot. Maybe fill in the holes for me what happens in this movie.
Speaker 1:So we're introduced to Martin Brody, who is the chief of police of Amity Island. He is a relatively new chief of police. This is his first summer there and he is not an Islander. He has come there from New York City. He is married to Ellen and they have two little boys. The older one's about 9, 10. The younger one's like four or five Michael and Sean.
Speaker 1:So at the very beginning of the film we see a group of teenagers having a party on the beach. There's a girl flirting with a boy and she says come on, let's go, and starts running and he runs after her and he's like what are we doing? And she says we're going swimming. And she starts stripping and he is clearly very drunk and he's like I'm coming, I'm coming. And then she starts taking her clothes off. He's like, oh, I'm definitely coming. And so he's having trouble getting his clothes off. She gets into the water and he kind of passes out on the sand so he does not see when she is attacked and killed by a shark. And this is an amazing scene where you just see her like pulled left and right and all of that. I've got some things to say about the actress who played that character because it's a pretty amazing story.
Speaker 1:So the next morning Brody gets a phone call. The boy reports the girl has gone missing and so they start looking. They find what remains of her. And so they start looking. They find what remains of her and Brody does the very responsible thing and is immediately he sends her to the coroner. Coroner says this was a shark attack and so he starts getting signs to say beach closed, it's not safe. And he also is like getting in touch with everyone who has any kind of like anything on the schedule for being in the water. So there's some Boy Scouts who are doing a swim, test, things like that.
Speaker 1:The mayor manages to grab him and say, like you can't close this down, it is June 28th, 29th, somewhere around there, around there, and Amity is a summer town and specifically the 4th of July weekend is a huge moneymaker because it is a tourist resort and so everyone on the island needs the tourist dollars to be able to maintain. So the mayor, Mayor Vaughn, grabs Brody and has the coroner with him and the coroner says no, I was wrong, it was a boating accident. Those are propeller marks that I saw. And Brody reluctantly says all right, fine, I was going, based on what the coroner told me. If the coroner is saying that this is like a boating accident and that could have been propeller marks, then fine. So it's about a week later, the people are on the beach. Actually, it's only a few days later, come to think of it. People are on the beach. Brody is on the beach. We learn that he is afraid of the water and does not like boats, so it's kind of an odd place for him to be.
Speaker 2:Why would you choose to raise your family on an island if you're afraid of water and boats?
Speaker 1:We get to that. It basically is that he knows that his fear is irrational and he doesn't want his kids to be raised with the same fear. And he took the job on Amity Island because it was a place where one man can make a difference. While he was police officer in New York city, there were so many horrible things happening all the time that he felt like it was a drop in the bucket, whatever he could do, and he hated how he felt like his kids were not safe in New York. So there's some interesting safe in New York. So there's some interesting racialized implications that are not at all examined. Yeah, sure, because Amity Island sounds like it's off the coast of Massachusetts and it's pretty much an entirely white island. You do see, when the tourists come there are plenty, it's a very diverse group of tourists, but the island itself is pretty much entirely white. It seems like.
Speaker 2:All right. So Sheriff Brody here is scared of boats and water. He's on the beach with his kids. It's a couple of days after the shark attack that was mistakenly called a boating accident carry on.
Speaker 1:He is on the sand, like keeping an eye out, like, and people keep like. One of the through lines is people are constantly interrupting him like hey, chief brody, chief brody, can you do this about that, can you do this about that? And someone you know stands in his way and is like hey, I want you to. And he's like looking over his shoulder and he hears screeching and he looks, he's like and it's just kids playing. So in the midst of that there is a little boy we find out his name is Alex Kintner, who is out on a little paddle raft and people start screaming, there's something going on. And then Alex Kintner is basically eaten in his paddle raft. So you see blood in the water and Brody goes. It's like, get everybody out of there, get everybody out of the water. And then the paddle it's a little inflatable paddle boat that Alex is on washes up, it's got a bite in it and there's blood everywhere and Alex's mother is distraught. Blood everywhere and Alex's mother is distraught, of course. So, brody, then the next day you see that Mrs Kintner has offered a $3,000 bounty to any fishermen who can catch the shark. I looked it up and $3,000 in 1975 would be nearly $18,000. Today there is a meeting held by the chief of police, the mayor and several other people where it's like all the people in town who own businesses saying, like you know, we can't close the beaches.
Speaker 1:It's almost 4th of July weekend and that's when Quint, who is the quintessential old salt kind of guy like the, very much a feels like a caricature. But I have been to Maine and I've met people like him, of a fisherman OK, his name is Quint. His name is Quint. Okay, his name is Quint. His name is Quint. Okay, he gets everyone's attention by putting his nails down a chalkboard because everyone's talking and he says you know what I do, and what he does is he hunts sharks, basically, and I will catch this monster for you. But $3,000 isn't going to be enough. I need $10,000, which is nearly $60,000 in 2024 dollars. He's a shark hunter.
Speaker 1:Yes, so he's a fisherman, but his but his hobby is shark hunting. His hobby is shark hunting, and everywhere, when you see where he lives, he's surrounded by jaws shark jaws that he's collected of the sharks that he's hunted. Jaws shark jaws that he's collected of the sharks that he's hunted. Okay, and he's like so you can either pay me the $10,000 and I'll take care of this, or you're going to be on welfare over the winter because the shark's going to attack again. The mayor countermands Brody's insistence that they close the beaches. He's like look, I will, you know, pay for extra help in patrolling the beaches.
Speaker 2:You put a security guard to look out for sharks. Well, no, it's more like they're going to have boats out like kind of patrolling out, like to dissuade the shark from coming close to shore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and keeping an eye to make sure that the, if it does come closer, they can put up a warning and get people out of the water, I believe. Pressing the button. Brody is is really upset about it. There are several fishermen who are like all right, we're going to get that, get that $3,000. We see one pair of fishermen who get his wife's roast that he puts out as bait for the shark. The shark grabs the roast and actually pulls the pier apart.
Speaker 2:Sorry, let me just repeat that back to you. Sorry, let me just repeat that back to you. A fisherman uses a pot roast as bait for a shark who's so big that he pulls the pier apart.
Speaker 1:I and there are sharks that big they couldn't do that yeah, but they don't care.
Speaker 2:I mean, they wouldn't.
Speaker 1:But okay, carry on. Brody calls in help from the Oceanographic Institute and Matt Hooper from the Oceanographic Institute arrives. He's played by Richard Dreyfuss and he is a he actually he talks about how he's quite wealthy. So there's a point where Brody asks like, are you rich? He's like yeah. He's like well, how much do you have? He's like do you mean me or the family? So, quite wealthy. And that causes some tension as well.
Speaker 1:Later, who comes in? Just as a whole bunch of fishermen go out and bring back a giant tiger shark. So, matt Hooper, as they're bringing in the tiger shark, matt Hooper asks to see the remains of the first victim, because there's nothing left of poor little Alex and it's in a box. Her remains are in a box. And he looks at it. He's just like this is no propeller. Remains are in a box, and he looks at it. He's just like this is no propeller. And he's like really mad at the coroner for lying after being pressed on. And so when they bring the tiger shark in, brody is delighted. He's like, oh, thank goodness, this is over, we don't have to worry anymore. And Hooper is getting in the middle of like they want to get a picture of the of this dead tiger shark with the fishermen who caught him and Brody is measuring his bite radius, saying like I'm not saying. This isn't Wait, brody is or.
Speaker 2:Hooper is.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. Hooper is measuring the bite radius um, saying I'm not, saying this isn't the shark. Okay, but it may not be. I think there may be a bigger shark out there. The mayor is like hushing Hooper saying like I do not want to cause a panic In the midst last week, meaning the girl who died initially and you kept the beaches open. Shame on you. And my boy is dead.
Speaker 1:Cooper tells Brody, there's an easy way to figure this out Cut the shark open. They have a slow digestive system. We can see if there's any remains, human remains, inside. We'll know the mayor won't let them do that. He's like there's a bunch of people here. I don't want the remains of that poor little boy here among all these people. That's reasonable, that's fair. That actually does sound pretty fair, yeah.
Speaker 1:But that evening there's this very lovely moment. Brody is at the dinner table and is clearly just distraught. He feels responsible for the death of that little boy and he's just kind of sitting and thinking and his little boy, sean, who's like four or five, starts mirroring, mirroring him, so like, uh, brody puts his hand on his chin or his chin on his hands, and so sean does it, and then brody kind of like laces his fingers together, and then sean does it and so like, and finally he gets his dad's attention and um, brody says to his son, like give me a kiss. And uh, the son goes, why? And he, and he says because I need it. And so he gives him a kiss and then runs off. It's, it's this very quiet, simple little moment, but it is, it's lovely, it's just lovely.
Speaker 1:So Hooper comes over and says look, we need to see if we can find. To Brody's house. To Brody's house, yes, comes by to Brody's house. He says let's go slice that shark open and then you'll know. So they do. There are no human remains in the shark. And so Hooper says all right, let's take my boat out, we'll see if we can. We can find it.
Speaker 1:I've got all these gadgets and gizmos and things a plenty brody says a boat, because he is not super happy about this. So they go out um, this is when they have the conversation about how rich Hooper is and they find the boat of a local fisherman named Ben Gardner. Hooper says, okay, I'm going to go in and see like there's damage to the hull. I'm going to see if it's shark damage. And so he puts on a wetsuit, diving suit and goes down. He finds a shark tooth in the damage to the hull. But then he is frightened by the remains of Ben Gardner the fisherman. Like his head floats into view Ew, yeah, it's truly terrifying Floats into view.
Speaker 1:And so he startles and drops the shark tooth. So they go back to the mayor saying like this is like you've got to close the beach. This was a great white shark tooth, it's huge, you've got to close the beaches. Now there are three victims. And the mayor says like like well, where's this tooth? Well, I, unfortunately I dropped it. And uh. So and he says to brody did you see the tooth?
Speaker 2:I mean he saw ben gardner's head right well, they left it.
Speaker 1:They towed the boat back, but yeah.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Poor Ben, yeah, and I think I mean his head, probably dropped to the bottom of the ocean too Poor.
Speaker 1:Ben's family. Well, it sounds like he was another kind of old salt who didn't have, which is why he wasn't reported missing. Ah, mayor refuses to do anything's. Fourth of july weekend we see everyone arrive, very, very crowded beaches. Brody is is in uniform on the beach, you know, trying to like coordinate everything, keep everyone safe. Uh, hooper, and and several other boats are out, kind of patrolling.
Speaker 1:We see Brody tell his older son, michael, to take. He's got a little boat to take it to what he calls the pond, which is like there's this estuary that's not like directly to the ocean. And so, and the, the boy goes the pond's for old ladies. He's like I know it's for old ladies, but please do it for your old man. And so his son's like all right, fine, because Brody assumes that Michael will be safer. So in the midst of this crowd at first no one's getting in the water the mayor goes to one of the big muck mucks in town and says why isn't anyone in the water? You should go in the water. So the friend and his wife and their grandchildren go in the water and then all of a sudden everyone's in the water. Hooper and several other boats are out keeping an eye out for the shark. Once everyone's in the water, all of a sudden there is a fin that comes in and mass panic. Everyone's getting out of the water.
Speaker 2:And that fin, that's the iconic.
Speaker 1:That has just become shorthand for scary Like do-do, do-do, do-do, do-do, do-do, do-do, do-do, no, not yet like do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, no, not yet. Uh, in this particular instance, um, and this is one of the things that makes this movie a masterpiece, is there is no music now. Prior, there has always been music oh, so the?
Speaker 2:so the music that I just poorly quoted did happen at the earlier attacks. Oh, oh yeah. Yeah, but it's not happening now.
Speaker 1:It's not happening now.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, carry on.
Speaker 1:So people are freaking out. They're running to, to, um and they're like bowling each other over. There's a man who, like, swims through a raft of small children. The children fall and fall in the water. Um, turns out it's two children with a fake fin.
Speaker 1:The boats come oh, so the score actually was a was a clue that it wasn't actually our great white okay, in the midst of this, this, uh, like frenzy, you know, and brody has to make sure like there's, there's an old man who's like lying lying over like he he overexerted himself or got run over or something, by people like, so these kids are causing serious damage, um, and it's the boats catch up to them and pull them out of the water and that's how they. They find that it's, it's just just kids. In the midst of that, there's a girl on the other side of what Brody called the pond who sees a fin coming in to the estuary.
Speaker 2:So, and is there music?
Speaker 1:I can't remember, but I think so. Yes, and so there is a man on a boat, in a rowboat coming closer to Brody's son's boat, where he and his friends are, are all together and he's talking to them, and then he gets knocked over the man in the boat and eaten right in front of brody's kids.
Speaker 2:Yes, in the estuary. Yes, I don't think. I don't think sharks like briny water, I don't think they like thatiny water. I don't think they like that like part sweet.
Speaker 1:We're not going for ecological verisimilitude here, and actually I have a point about that later, all right, and so Brody is like running to get to his son because everyone, everyone was on the beach and this is, you know, a little bit over, and the girl who had been, like there's a shark, there's a shark. No one's listening to her because everyone on the beach is worried about the fake shark. So we do hear the music and, like shark pov coming towards michael and then veering and we don't know what's happened. And we see Brody, like, reaches his son and pulls him out of the surf. So like, okay, he's, he's still intact. And then you pull, you see him pull out because there's this worry that maybe he ate off his leg or something. And no, his feet are fine. Next thing you see is in the hospital. Michael is suffering from shock, he's okay. Hospital Michael is suffering from shock, he's okay, he's just suffering from shock.
Speaker 1:That's when Vaughn, the mayor, comes in and is so ashamed and remorseful and Brody says you need to sign the requisition to hire Quint. We are going to do this. We're going to go hunt that shark to hire Quint, like we are. We are going to do this, we're going to go hunt that shark. That begins the last, like third, of the film where it is Quint, hooper and Brody on Quint's boat, the Orca. Quint and Hooper really butt heads because Quint has no, he's got no patience for a rich college boy and hooper is like I don't have to take this working class hero, bullshit, they, they go out. Quint really does know what he's doing. Um, he's uh like putting chum out in the water sorry, really does or really does not?
Speaker 1:does. Okay, he knows what he's doing putting chum out in the water. What they're trying to do is they want to get the shark, like, attract the shark. And then he is going to hit him with a harpoon that is connected to a barrel, that is a flotation, and so it's going to provide enough drag that it's going to be hard for the shark to go back down underneath. So, and then it's bright yellow barrel so they'll be able to follow him, so they are able to draw the shark. The three of them are butting heads, they're like grumbling at each other. Brody really does not like having to chum the waters. And uh, quint tells him come on, just, you know, put the chum out. And and brody is like I can, when you see behind him the shark come up and this is brody the sheriff.
Speaker 2:This is brody the sheriff, the chief of police, the chief of police, of police, who's afraid of water and boats.
Speaker 1:Who's afraid of water and boats?
Speaker 2:And the shark, like, comes up out of the water with that big mouth, like that iconic image.
Speaker 1:And it's very much the like, the visual version of dramatic irony, because we see what's happening, but he doesn't. He doesn't what's happening because his head he doesn't. And uh, he turns around to like throw the chum and like, god bless, roy scheider, it is the most amazing.
Speaker 1:like like his startle response is believable, his startle response and he, like, walks slowly backwards and that's when he says the iconic line you're going to need a bigger boat, which apparently I've read was ad-libbed. But then I read something that made it sound like it wasn't, or maybe it was ad-libbed the first time and then they re-shot it anyway, so they managed to harpoon it with one barrel. It is like trying to attack the boat and then it gets away with the barrel and goes underneath the water. So that's how big this shark is it doesn't care about the barrel it does not care about the barrel.
Speaker 1:so brody's like all right, well, why don't we go back in and we'll come back with a bigger boat? And, um, um, quint is like nope, we're not doing that, we're gonna. Um, uh, we're, we're gonna stay overnight, um, out on the sea and we'll, you know, keep trying for it so we don't lose it. So they end up eating dinner. They have this kind of really uh, both Hooper and Quint are are drinking and are pretty tipsy. And so they start comparing scars. And it's the first time Hooper and Quint have any kind of affinity for each other, because all of Hooper's scars are from the ocean, so this was from Amore Eel, whereas Quint's are from brawling, among other things. And finally Brody says to Quint what's that one on your, on your arm? He's like oh, that that there was a tattoo there, that I got it removed. He's like. And Hooper makes a joke, like, oh, what did it say, mother? And Quint says no, uss Indianapolis. And Hooper immediately gets serious because he knows what that is.
Speaker 1:And there is this amazing, like three-and-a-half-minute monologue where Quint tells the story of the USS Indianapolis, which was in World War II. They delivered the bomb On their way back, and this is all true. They were hit by Japanese missiles and went down Because it was a secret mission that they were doing. No one was coming for them, no one knew they were missing. 1,100 men went into the water and for some reason there was this horrible shark attack Many, many, many sharks. So 1,100 men went into the water, 316 came out. And this is true. This is all true.
Speaker 2:So like the Indianapolis like went down in like a shark nest or something, yes, yes Well that isn't terrifying.
Speaker 1:Yes, so we now have a much better understanding of what the hell is going on with quentin, why he's so weird and why he collects sharks yes, dead sharks yes, something hits the boat and they realize it's.
Speaker 1:The shark is back and is attacking them and hits the boat enough that it sends water into the engine and the engine stops working. Things are corroded. So they are working through the night. The shark then goes away. They're working through the night to fix the engine, but the engine is not doing well. In the morning the shark comes back. They managed to get two more barrels attached to it and at that point Brody goes to the radio to call in for help from the Coast Guard and Quint comes in and destroys the radio because he wants to get this shark himself. He does not want help.
Speaker 2:Because that's what his crewmates on the Indianapolis would want.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know if it's worried about money, if it's like that he thinks that he might have to share the money, or even though that, like, he was specifically contracted. So it's just, it's, it's, and that's the first time you really see Brody loses, loses temper.
Speaker 2:I mean his shipmates being irrational.
Speaker 1:Yes, so they try to get the shark attached to the, to the boat, so they can get it close enough that they can hurt it and kill it. And it is so big and strong that it pulls the edge of the end of the boat off.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think that's the bit that I saw when my family was watching it. Like it just like ripped the boat like in pieces. Yeah, why did it just like drag the boat though?
Speaker 1:it did. It was dragging the boat for quite some time. Um and uh, they were trying the, but it was attached to a certain part of the boat. Oh, and I think they they started, um, they put the um engine on to forward, so it was like engines going forward.
Speaker 2:So the boat was being pulled in two directions.
Speaker 1:Two directions yes, pulling forward, okay, yes, I'm just thinking of the physics of it. Yes, Okay. So engines. And Hooper is yelling at Quint because he is overtaxing the engine and he knows, like they've already, they spent the night fixing the engine. It can't handle this Boat's taking on water. There's more water going in the engine and of course the inevitable happens and the engine dies. And so at that point Quint says to Hooper what do you have that can kill this shark?
Speaker 1:Oh it's explosives, right, not yet Hooper has some kind of strychnine or something like that. And uh, uh, quint's like, can you get that? Can this needle go through the, the, the skin? He's like no, I have to get into his eye or his mouth. And he has a shark cage. So, like, this is insane, what are you doing? And uh, hooper says do you have a better idea? No, so Hooper goes down in the shark cage. We see things from his point of view. It's terrifying.
Speaker 1:Um, the, the shark attacks the cage, breaks it, causing hooper to drop the, uh, the, um, the syringe, the syringe, implement thing. And it uh continues to attack the shark cage until hooper is able to swim out and then hide like in a reef. So, and then the shark keeps breaking the cage and then Brody and Quint bring it up. It's empty. Oh God, cooper must be dead. Then the shark comes up and bites the end of the boat. Yeah, brody and Quint try to get into the engine room, but the boat is now tilting down. It's listing, yeah, it's listing. And Quint falls into, basically, shark's mouth and is destroyed, destroyed, that's one more time. There is another oxygen tank for scuba diving left and Brody gets like, shoves it into the shark's mouth and the shark kind of swims around, again Boat's like taken on water and he gets up to the crow's nest with his gun and shoots the oxygen tank, blowing up the shark. That is the point when hooper resurfaces and the uh, they grab, there are like two or three barrels left. They're like, will those get us back home? And so they hang on to the barrels and, um, hooper still has his uh, his flippers on and they, they, they head home and that's the end hooper kicks them home.
Speaker 2:Yeah on, barrett now they, they're.
Speaker 1:They're closer at that point, they're only like a mile offshore. She says, I mean I'm not saying it's, but it's, it's doable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, okay. Well, that was a terrifying story that you just told me, so where do you want to start with the analysis?
Speaker 1:Let me start with the tight storytelling Great, which was kind of accidental. So the book Jaws, which I haven't read, is apparently very different from the film. The character names are the same things like that. But Hooper has an affair with Brody's wife.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, that seems unnecessary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, steven Spielberg said that he actually, when he read the book he was rooting for the shark because everyone was so unlikable, and so Peter Benchley adapted it for the screenplay. He did like three or four drafts and it still wasn't something that Spielberg liked or the studios, because he was not originally the director attached to it. So Carl Gottlieb, who is a humor writer, like he wrote for the Odd Couple, did some script doctoring, as did several other people, and that was partially because Spielberg wanted some humor in it and there are some very funny moments and that is like another legacy it has. It's like our blockbuster movies are not dead serious, like there are. There are moments of levity, uh-huh, yep.
Speaker 1:So when I talk about tight storytelling, so the fact that brody was afraid of the, of what happens in the story, starting with him not being a waterman, is really really impressive prior to seeing the shark, where Quint tells Brody go get XYZ from over there and Brody goes to pull the knot to untie the knot that's attached to it and he grabs the wrong one and the oxygen tanks that Hooper has brought with him for scuba diving come undone and Hooper gets really angry at Brody. He's like those could explode because they're oxygen tanks and you got to be careful with them. And Quint says to Brody next time ask me which not to pull, like you know. Next time ask me which not to pull. That it is as a storyteller.
Speaker 1:I am so impressed with that because it is character based, because Brody has no idea what he's doing on a boat he doesn't know, he doesn't know ropes, like we see that at another point where he doesn't know ropes, he doesn't, he does not know what he's doing. He is fish out of water, so to speak, on that boat and that is an integral part of his character. And so it is such a natural way to introduce the oxygen tanks and the fact that they can explode. I mean I get heart palpitations with excitement at how good that is. I get heart palpitations with excitement at how good that is. I mean it is so tight Because in a lesser director or writer's hands that would have happened with Hooper being like careful now, those could explode when loading them, right, right.
Speaker 1:Which would have been fine, but just like obvious exposition as opposed to sort of natural exposition, and at no point is there obvious exposition, with the exception of, and this is not, I mean, the monologue that Shaw gives. Excuse me, that Quint gives. Shaw is the name of the actor who played him. Oh, and, by the way, quint is the fifth victim of the shark who played him. Oh, and, by the way, quint is the fifth victim of the of the shark Interesting, so that's lovely, so that the, the tightness of that writing is unbelievable to me. I like particularly because, no, not there were so many iterations, and it shows me the power of revision.
Speaker 1:Because everything slotted into place perfectly. Yeah, and I think this shows what a genius Spielberg is Because he made the right choices for the film, based on accidents. So they nicknamed the mechanical shark Bruce. Bruce kept breaking. Spielberg says that he was too arrogant to realize how difficult it would be to film in the ocean. He did not want to do a soundstage.
Speaker 1:He's like we're going the atlantic ocean and, in fact, the the studio executives who, like they, read the book before it came out that they read the book overnight, like they one sitting we're like this would make a great movie, and they've said since then, if they'd read it a second time, they would have been like oh, we can't make this movie because of how difficult it would be so because of the mechanical problems with bruce, we don't see the shark until very late, like the late in the second act. It sounds like yeah yeah, and it's not until the three men are on the orca that we actually see the shark in the third act yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So we see it's finn when brody's son is in danger and we get a shark pov at that moment as well?
Speaker 2:is that the first we do?
Speaker 1:we get no, there we. We get the shark pov several times, including, uh, with the first victim at the very beginning. Oh okay, and so brilliant. That's brilliant. I mean, for one thing, if we had seen the shark from the beginning, it would have just been a monster movie. Our imaginations fill in the, the, the fright.
Speaker 2:It's really interesting to do the the monster POV as well, instead of showing the monster. Showing what the monster sees. Like that's. That's really interesting to do the monster POV as well, instead of showing the monster. Showing what the monster sees. Like that's really. I mean, it's not unheard of.
Speaker 1:I feel like that happens Well it makes me think of the fact that Spielberg was I was rooting for the shark Interesting Like he makes us the shark.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's one happy accident. Another one hooper in the in the book dies and he was supposed to die in the film. He was supposed to be eaten while in the shark cage. There were two marine experts who got various footage of a great white, a huge great white in Australia, and they were a married couple. Last name was Taylor, the wife's name was Valerie I cannot remember the husband's name, but they ended up getting footage of a great white destroying a shark cage that was empty, didn't have the dummy in it, because they had planned to have a dummy in it, and it was so terrifying that Spielberg said all right.
Speaker 2:Hooper can live Right. So Hooper escaped so they could use that actual footage of an actual shark. That actual footage yes, so that scene is not Bruce, it's a real shark.
Speaker 1:And there are several points where it's a real shark Got it. So when it's Bruce is when he's attacking the orca.
Speaker 2:When he bites half the boat off. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that to me is also like way too create the right film based on what you have rather than sticking to a vision that might not work as well, and this is a very, very weird thing to bring up in relation to that. But the TV show how I met your mother could have learned from this, because they were so tied to their vision that the mother is dying and that it's about ted coming back to robin, which could have been a satisfying ending if the show were a lot shorter two seasons maybe, yeah um, and so, like they went with their vision rather than like all right, we need to rewrite this based on where we have gone and what we have, which is, I, I think, something that all writers and creators need to need to do, like accept the happy accidents.
Speaker 2:Rewrite based on what you have well, it has to be a balance right Because, like, if you, if you only follow the accidents, then you don't end up with that tight storytelling that you are so enamored of right. It has to be sort of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's more like no, when, no, when to uh, to, to say like. And there's, there's another really good example of this the moment when Hooper goes to see Ben Gardner's boat and sees the head. I don't remember what that was originally, but the editor of the film, on his own dime, because this movie went way over budget, because he wanted it to be scarier, so he took the happy accidents here here, but he refused to accept it there and he was right.
Speaker 2:So I think the the lesson that is not actually about like the accidents, or it's not actually about the accidents. It's actually about like having a um, what's the word I'm looking for? Objective's not's not the right word, but like a clear, a clear way of sort of judging what best serves the story, whether it's the vision or the accident, whether it's what you actually have or you know, some replacement like what actually best serves the story.
Speaker 1:And that actually, I think is part of what makes Spielberg a genius is because so many creators fall in love with their creation so like how I Met your Mother and so they don't want to shift from it. I mean, chris Carter of X-Files was the same way. He didn't want to shift from what his vision was, even though he had these two insanely hot people who had amazing chemistry and everyone wanted them to kiss. So, knowing when to murder your darlings, knowing when what you want is important enough to go get it, and knowing when what you want is not as good as what you have.
Speaker 2:I would also add that there's something I think it's less about being in love with your creation, because I think Spielberg is in love with Jaws. Oh yeah, yeah did was unwilling to consider the experience of his fans. I'm sorry, what like I get? Not wanting to, because fans like want all different things and sometimes what they want it doesn't serve story, but sometimes what they want does serve story. I feel like carter rejected it because they wanted it. And um spielberg it wasn't about sort of what the viewers like he knew they wanted it. And Spielberg it wasn't about sort of what the viewers like he knew they wanted because he didn't have viewers, but thinking about their experience actually was driving him because he wanted it to be scarier.
Speaker 2:He wanted the viewers to have a specific experience, and then he was looking to see which pieces whether accident or vision best served that experience that he wanted them to have.
Speaker 1:I think likewise Come to think of it, I think that the scene that he did in the swimming pool, I think that was after test audiences. So there you go, I believe. Maybe, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it actually was responding directly to their feedback not just his expectation and understanding of their experience. I mean, I think how I met your mother is the same thing, Like they were more indebted, they were more accountable to their own vision than to the integrity of the story or the experience of their viewers.
Speaker 2:I think those two. When we prioritize those two things the integrity of the story and the experience of its consumers you end up with great story such a good story, and the thing that got me about this again in storytelling is like how different it is from modern movies.
Speaker 1:And some of that, I think, is just that there there are trends and changes in the way movies are made and stories are told like things change, but this film does not use exposition. So when we meet Brody he's sitting up in in bed like kind of in the sun, going like, oh, the sun didn't used to hit like this, and his wife says, well, it's because we bought the house in fall. It's summer now, beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2:That makes it clear how long they've been on the island, and so part of that is like I feel, like a lot of modern movies they assume that you can't figure that out down of storytelling just in general, um, which, like, on the one hand, is really annoying and, on the other hand, as like a super literal viewer at least on my first view, like sometimes I'm really grateful for the explanation yeah, yeah, yeah, although I also because I am such a super literal viewer at least on first view like I don't mind being confused.
Speaker 2:I think that's. Maybe that's what it is that's changed with audiences. We used to makes sense with our, like the very bite sized way in which we consume a lot of media now.
Speaker 1:It's funny because we have regular movie night at my house and my kids are. They are my kids because I used to do this when I was a kid. But they will ask like oh, where's he going, what's he doing? And like last night for a movie night, I said to them, like do you know, the answers to your question are going to be presented by what we're watching.
Speaker 2:I have clear memory of dad saying to one or both of us I'm watching the same thing, you are, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. So there is a reason why this film is so enduring. It is just phenomenal. It is dated in terms of, like brody's not using a typewriter and you know, if you don't have a, have a, like a landline, you can't call, and like fashions and and some of the sexual politics and things like that. But other than that, like then, it's basically a period piece. It could be made today exactly as is and just be set in 1975.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is an amazing film. They also got some pretty heavy hitters. So Spielberg wanted known actors who were not super famous, because he wanted it to feel like this could happen to anyone, and so, though Roy Scheider was relatively well-known, he was kind of like a B-list actor. Robert Shaw, who played Quint, was also kind of like relatively well-known but also had done a lot of theater. Richard Dreyfuss was up and coming. Now, robert Shaw this is one of the things. I was looking up the actors, because it's one of the things I do. He passed away a couple of years later, at age 51. And I was like Whoa, cause I would have thought he was like 57 in this film. And I looked it up and he was 48. And yeah, well, you don't smoke. So I think that makes a difference.
Speaker 1:He was partially responsible for the Indianapolis monologue because, in addition to doing theater, he was also a playwright. So that monologue was not in the book and it was written by one of the script doctors. They wrote about three quarters of the page, and this is an almost five minute monologue that Shaw is responsible for in a lot of ways and this is another thing that I feel like modern movies do not do is it's shot in a single take and it's just a man talking. We occasionally get like reaction shots for from Hooper and Brody and it is arresting. It is like in some ways it's the most terrifying part of the film. Not jump scare wise, but just in terms of like, oh my god, that's awful. Now I had known about the uh, what happened with the Indianapolis because of the same uh science teacher. I mentioned. Uh with Jurassic park. We had a shark unit, I think, and so we learned about it there. So I imagine that monologue is even more terrifying to someone who is not familiar with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know about it. And for our listeners who don't know, my spouse is a retired sailor from the Navy, so damn.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I kind of want to talk a little bit about Jaws' legacy yeah, and not filmmaking legacy, real world Peter Benchley, who wrote the book and the first draft, or original draft, of the screenplay. He's since passed away, but he very much regretted what's known as the Jaws effect, where people think that sharks are basically evil killing machines and aggressive and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, out to get us, and so conservationists are really concerned and there was a huge number of people who were out killing sharks because of this film, like in the late 70s and early 80s because of this film. Yeah, and to this day, people are still scared of sharks in ways that is inappropriate, Because and this is another thing I remember learning from Mr Anderson in middle school sharks don't like the taste of people.
Speaker 2:Right, if they bite us, it's an accident, because we look like a seal.
Speaker 1:Yes, taste of people, right, if they bite us, it's an accident because we look like a seal. Yes, so, specifically when some, it's surfers who are more likely to be attacked like sea lions, because if they're laying on the surfboard from below it's like the body of a seal, with with its flippers hanging out, and so they have been known to take a bite and then spit it out. And, in fact, one of the things I noticed this time through is poor little Alice Kentner. When you see from the shark's point of view from below, he's on the little inflatable raft with his arms on either side, which is basically what would cause a shark to be like, oh, lunch. So this film added to the idea that sharks are man-eaters. Like, sharks want to eat human beings, which they don't. They really, really don't. And there's a lot of suspect science in the film.
Speaker 1:And you know they're talking about the, the the shark as and you know they're talking about the, the the shark as being like you know you're you're ringing the dinner bell for the shark, and I am conflicted about that because I care very much about conservation. I find sharks fascinating, a little terrifying, just because they, they, they seem like the closest thing to aliens on on this planet. Like one of the things they talk about is like you look in their eye and it's, it's like there's no life there, um, and there is something about like that cold and that's like anthropomorphizing, but that that, the, the way that their eyes look, is scary. But they are this Marvel, like they like it is incredible that they have come to be on this planet and it is like, first of all, if we're in the water, we're in their house, right, like centipede gets into my house, I, I, I shoo it away.
Speaker 1:And it's when we start assigning like evil and like evil intelligence to creatures that are just surviving, like in the same way that, um, uh muldoon in jurassic park, that character I one of the reasons why I liked him is because he respected the dinosaurs and he recognized that they were just being what they are, right, um, and so in this film there is no, just, I mean, hooper is the closest, he, wow, this is a beautiful creature, it's a beautiful specimen. But Quint is very much like oh, they're evil, kill them all. And because of his experience in the Indianapolis, which actually happened, understandable. And what happened with the Indianapolis, I don't know, I would have to look it up. I'm sure that there are papers or people have looked into it. If it might've been a sort of thing where, like they interrupted, like a nest, like you said, and it might've been a time where, for whatever reason, there was not enough food, and so you know, you have 1100 floating steaks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even if they're not the stakes that you like yeah yeah so.
Speaker 1:So that that is something that I think, like I. I don't blame benchley or spielberg or anyone for this happening, because it didn't occur to them that it would you know. For one thing, they had no way of knowing that this film would be so huge. Now, I mean, the studio did what they could to make sure it was, but they had no way of knowing. They had no way of knowing what the impact would be, in part because not that movies were new in the 70s, but a blockbuster that everybody saw that was new.
Speaker 2:Well, also I I mean certainly movies have had effect on culture, no question, and had even at in the 70s. And also it was a monster movie. You know, like we didn't worry about the effect on the wolf population when we made werewolf movies. Right, like maybe we should have? Right, because I think, similarly, werewolf movies have contributed to the distrust of wolves among humans. But that's just not. It's just not. It's like a different realm of thought and consciousness, like I'm making a monster movie. The monster monster is a shark, cool man. It's not like. What effect is this going to have on the ocean ecology? Yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't blame Benchley or Spielberg for not foreseeing that.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is something that I feel like now that we know.
Speaker 2:Right, well, today, today, if Spielberg made a movie about garden snakes or something you know, going crazy or like God forbid bees, yeah, and people started killing bees, like then I would hold Spielberg accountable Because, hey, you saw it happen with Jaws.
Speaker 1:But in 75?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:He couldn't have foreseen that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But he was 27. Yeah, I mean, I foresaw nothing when I was 27.
Speaker 1:Seriously, I barely foresaw hangovers when I was so that that to me is I think really it's something that we need to to hold on to about this film. Now I mentioned when we started that covid made me think of this film and it that gets to something that for a very long time in like 20s and 30s, I would see depictions of bad guys like Larry Vaughn, the mayor of Amity, in this film and go like people don't act like that, no one's that short-sighted. That is a very naive portrayal of bad, and I remember there were similar things where I would read something where I was like no one's that hypocritical, no one's that evil. And what's interesting is I patted myself on the back for that when I would have that reaction because I would be like I am too smart to believe that anyone's that caricature, that much of a caricature. And the fact that I was naive when I was saying you're naive is like kind of blows my mind because until COVID it never occurred to me that we would have people saying like you know what I'm willing to sacrifice grandparents to keep our economy strong.
Speaker 1:And what I like about the portrayal of Vaughn in this film is that there is something a little bit sympathetic In that. He is so, for instance, when he is finally convinced after the attack that kills the fourth victim and nearly gets Brody's son, vaughn, says my children were on that beach too, and so his conviction is not coming from a place of like I'm keeping my kids home but we're keeping the beaches open. This is not like I don't care profit above all else. This is like I really refuse to see this, and so I can be a little bit sympathetic about that. But the fact that there really and truly were people who were like I refuse to believe this about COVID and continue to be surprised me and I realized, you know when that was happening. It shouldn't have, because I have seen it before, even if only in fiction. Yeah, you know Benchley, who I believe created that character and created that that tension on the island was was correct. There are people like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it is. There is a piece of human nature that, in order to protect oneself, says well, that's not real. That, maybe that happens to other people, but that doesn't happen to me.
Speaker 1:Honestly, after the first victim, I don't entirely understand the mayor leaning on the corner, but I definitely understand Brody the mayor leaning on the coroner, but I definitely understand Brody reluctantly saying all right, if you're saying it had to be a boat accident then, because he was going based on what he knew initially, right, sure, and he's not an Islander and all those things.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I hate to rush you because this is such a masterpiece, but I actually have a hard stop. So any final insights? Oh, bechdel Maybe.
Speaker 1:Brody's wife, Ellen, at one point is talking to a woman on the beach. I'm just not sure if that woman has a name. Okay All right.
Speaker 2:So reminder to our listeners the Bechdel test from Alison Bechdel. Are there at least two women? Do they both have names? Do they speak to one another about something other than a man? So, the answer about Jaws maybe.
Speaker 1:Maybe Because they're talking about Ellen is like so when will I be an Islander? And the woman says never, you have to be born here, Okay.
Speaker 2:But we don't know, if we're not.
Speaker 1:You don. We see if she's named, we see that that um character one other time.
Speaker 2:She owns a motel, okay, so she, she probably has a name, even if it's just yeah, yeah, all right, yeah, cool, um, okay, any other like quickly.
Speaker 1:Final thoughts that you want to share so the um, the actress who plays chrissy, the first victim, the the skinny dipping blonde her last name was back lenny, I cannot remember what her first name was the actress, and actually, and actually I think she's still alive.
Speaker 1:Really amazing, because what they wanted she was a stunt woman and Spielberg wanted someone who could swim and who was willing to be nude and she had grown up swimming, had actually done work Like this is kind of how she got into doing stunts, done work as like a mermaid at a like local program, like I mean, she was like a solid swimmer and so she heard that they were looking for that. So she sent a nude picture of herself to Spielberg. He said all righty then. And the way that they created what happened is they had ropes around her waist because she's like, pulled one direction, then pulled another direction and they had men on either side of her pulling her and some of her screams are real because it was painful. But considering the fact that she is kind of like the prototypical, like victim, blonde, victim, you know, sexualized, all of that she's a trope.
Speaker 1:Yes, she's a trope or a cliche yeah, but good, god damn, that actress is amazing, you really believe it and like, that's what I really want. Like, rather than focus on like oh, we saw her boobies, or and like you know the titillation of, of like she gets killed and from the shark's point of view, you can, you can, you can sort of it's through the water so you don't really see anything, but you can see your body. But no, focus on the fact that this woman was an amazing swimmer, an amazing stunt woman, did this incredible thing, like in the real ocean and like's. It's an incredible sequence done by a consummate professional who also happens to be absolutely gorgeous. Just, we do not give enough credit cool.
Speaker 2:All right, let me see if I can reflect back to you. Uh, quickly, because got to go. So Jaws, amazing film, launched the whole notion of a summer blockbuster, the whole notion of a single date of a theatrical release of a film. Some of the things that you lifted up that are great about it are the tightness of the storytelling, so that, for instance, we are introduced to the idea of the oxygen tanks as being an explosive through very natural character-driven action rather than sort of clunky exposition then sort of clunky exposition. Some of the things storytelling wise that you lifted up and are giving kudos to Steven Spielberg for are the ways in which he constantly reevaluated what he had and the happy accidents that happened in service to the story and the audience experience, to the story and the audience experience. So, on the one hand, the mechanical shark Bruce wasn't working as intended, and so we end up with this film, which is a monster movie about a shark, in which we do not see the shark until act three, which was accidental but, in the end, very effective At the same time. Well, another example Spielberg ended up with footage of an actual great white destroying a shark cage that was empty, so he rewrote that portion of the film and allowed Hooper to live so that he could use the footage of the shark cage being destroyed, but at the same time, he was unsatisfied with the moment when Hooper is startled by something in the water and reshot that on his own dime in the swimming pool of his film editor, possibly as a result of test audience responses. So cool, kudos to you, steven.
Speaker 2:Some of the other things that I heard that were really interesting are like the legacy of this film and this experience, this terrifying experience on sort of human interactions with sharks, like 50 years later, which is really sort of interesting and something that I think we agree that Spielberg eventually could not have anticipated. And now that we've seen it, movie makers today and, well, culture producers today really should be paying more attention to now that we know that that's a thing that can happen with blockbusters. I also heard from you sort of some nostalgia for a time when a single shot of a man talking was something that we would include in a summer blockbuster, because, in fact, the story of the indianapolis and what happened to its sailors, as delivered by shaw, who played quint, was really moving and poignant and scary, especially for those who, unlike you did not go through Mr Anderson's middle school science class and already knew about the story. Let me see. The film is dated in terms of like the actual technology and the fashion. The sexual politics were appropriate for the time and possibly we didn't get too deep into it.
Speaker 2:Possibly we didn't get too deep into it. Possibly the racial politics as well, insofar as the Brodies escaped I'm putting quotes around that word New York City to get to the safer and more idyllic Amity Island. And at least one of the features unexamined features of Amity Island is that is predominantly, if not exclusively, white residents there. Uh, it passes back dell. We think we just did that right at the very end and this film could be made today as a set in 1975 film. It holds up that completely, which is really remarkable. We talked about the score and the ways in which the score actually does some of the storytelling. So the now iconic melody that follows the shark's fin that I quoted poorly does not accompany the shark's fin when it is actually kids playing around.
Speaker 1:And there's actually one subversion of that, which is when Brody says you're going to need a bigger boat. The shark arrives without fanfare, and so it's amazing, because it's like the perfect timing to surprise because we don't get the warning.
Speaker 2:We didn't get the score and in that moment there was a some visual dramatic irony, because the viewer could see the giant shark coming up out of the water, but Brody had his back to it. Yes, the last thing that you lifted up for me, that you wanted to make sure you got to, was the performance of the actress, who was in some ways just a cliche. She's like the initial, like pretty blonde who we get to be titillated by seeing her boobies as she gets killed. So she's like all of the cliches she's pretty, she's blonde, she's sexualized because she's taking her clothes off with a boy and then immediately dies. And you lifted up the fact that this actress really gives a consummate performance. That is, that is believable and impressive, and you want us to talk about that rather than the things I just named. What am I forgetting?
Speaker 1:The connection to COVID and the idea that there are people in charge who are going to ignore danger. If it's inconvenient, think if it's inconvenient if it's inconvenient right.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's the bigger piece of. It is like the, the, the ways in which you thought these pictures of deeply of folks with, with in your view, in our view, like deeply problematic priorities, people who would value profit and economic reality over the death of constituents or fellow, you know, neighbors, seemed unrealistic to a younger version of Emily. And I love the way you talked about, how you sort of patted yourself on the back for sort of seeing through that fiction which we have realized, that the events of the past 10 years have really shown us, those of us who thought that that was fiction, that it's not in fact fiction but that Benchley and Spielberg presumably knew way back in 1975 that that was a genuine manifestation of evil in this world.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm, the banality of evil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, quote Hannah Arendt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, I'm still not going to watch it because scaredy cat here Good.
Speaker 1:So good I found out that Bruce is now at the um. There is a museum of um the film, the museum of the moving image in New York. No, no, it's in. Um, uh, Los Angeles just opened in 2021. Um, yeah, it's the museum of the film Academy, something like that. I can't remember exactly what it's called. In doing research, I found out, I found out that this was in Los Angeles and I was just like, oh, I have to go.
Speaker 1:Cool, but but this is the museum where Bruce lives, and it's yeah, and there's there's lots of like paraphernalia and things from various films and I feel like I could just set up camp and live in that museum for several days and just be happy, be very, very happy.
Speaker 2:We'll record an episode from the museum or something. I think that would be awesome.
Speaker 1:Alright, so next time you are bringing something to me, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So next, next week, just in time for halloween, I'm gonna bring you my deep thoughts about nightmare before christmas. Oh, I love that movie?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 2:Can't wait yeah yeah, yeah, tim burton did uh some interesting work with that one so I'm excited to look at it with the deep thoughts lens Definitely.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, I'll see you then. Do you like stickers?
Speaker 2:Sure, we all do. If you head over to guygirlsmediacom slash, sign up and share your address with us, we'll send you a sticker. It really is that easy, but don't wait, there's a limited quantity. Is that easy, but don't wait, there's a limited quantity. Thanks for listening. Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin MacLeod from Incompetechcom. Find full music credits in the show notes. Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture. And shouldn't you know what's in your head?